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 Replies: 38 / Views: 9,706 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2845 Posts |
What's unusual about the sale of the gold hoard aka "national treasure" is indeed it was a historical Canadian asset owned by Canadians. Had the Government chose to sell off a heritage building, a Park or other chuck of public land the terms of the sale would have been widely publicized and often met with public scrutiny to which would be addressed (sometimes). Contrary to that the workings behind the sale of this were very quiet. Part of that reason may be that many people are under the impression that it's totally ridiculous for any coin to be worth more than face value, therefore the planning preceding the sale event didn't capture much public interest. In reality it may have been an opportunity lost to enhance interest in numismatics in general.
All the same, just as you, I'd also wonder why a grading companies might be involved in appraising/selecting 30000 from the hoard but then the work not be formalized. That's really bizarre.
I might do some research of public documents to see what I can find, for my own interest...... considering I'm thinking the timing is not quite right to leap into a purchase of a 1912 $5 and $10 just yet:-)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
Personally I am very happy with how the sale was handled, I was able to acquire some coins that I would not normally have purchased, as a reasonable price.
Just curious, did you buy in person or online? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
867 Posts |
@wildflowerAB, although that is not my quote referenced above, here in Van, we had a RCM store, so I was able to view quite a few examples and cherry picked some nice ones....all now in ICCS flips....99% were spectacular compared to non hoard coins due to their original lustre. I also had the pleasure in viewing a couple of the premium box sets...there were one or two exceptional examples in each, easy MS65's. Sandy couldn't buy them all I suppose. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
That is one of the major point of fairness, if had access to a mint store you can see what you are buying, since the RCM already has hired ICCS, why not just pay them the extra 30.00 or so to grade them all and everyone will know what they are buying. At the Winnipeg RCNA, took mint tour and at the boutique there was only two 1914 10.00 that had big marks and a gouge that would not grade au. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Tripoli one of the reasons I asked is that must have been an incredible sight to behold to personally view a multitude of old gold coins all at the same time, even though you had no intention of purchasing them all.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
I purchased one $5 1914 via the mint website (1st day) and a $5 1912 and 1914 over the phone (3 months later), I had thought about going down to the mint store to look, but did not want to deal with the crowd. These coins were widely promoted (CBC, globe and mail, coin forums, global tv etc...) and you could purchase from multiple channels (in person, phone, email, website).
I felt the risk of getting a baggy coin was worth it, as the HS coins were running about 25% over bullion at the time of sale. I did not risk the PHS, which were considerably more expensive. I have not seen any information that they were significantly better coins, but would be very interested in any stories or actual grades received for the PHS's.
If you think about cost, $15 per coin is $500k in fees (assuming they only did the (30k for release) to have the coins in ICCS flips, which few people would want due to the soft flips lack of protection and general lack of eye appeal for display. PCGS would likely cost upwards of $1 million and the coins would be stuck in their cases. From a taxpayer standpoint, I am glad they chose not to spend the extra money and left individuals with the freedom to choose if they want their coins put into a large plastic container.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
867 Posts |
yes. There were times when there was a choice of 10-12 of the $10 1913's and 14's at any given time, and at times, all $5 and $10 coins were available. My initial order was by mail though, but I got lucky with what a I received.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Gold Coins Sales Program The centennial anniversary sale of King George V $5 and $10 gold coins dated 1912, 1913 or 1914, which was officially launched in November 2012, concluded in January 2014. On behalf of the Government of Canada, the Royal Canadian Mint sold all of the 30,000 high- and medium-quality gold coins held in the EFA. The program generated revenue of over C$25 million (Table A4.1) for the EFA over 2012-13 and 2013-14. After accounting for overhead costs, which included packaging, advertising, transportation and program management fees paid to the Royal Canadian Mint, the net profit to the EFA was approximately C$23 million. The 30,000 gold coins contained over 13,000 ounces of gold. The proceeds from the sales have been reinvested in highly liquid securities, consistent with the policy objectives of the EFA. At the end of March 2014, the EFA held 95,895 ounces of gold in the form of low-quality King George V coins. The Government also retained 36 pristine King George V coins, representing six sets of each denomination and year, for archival purposes. Source: Report on the Management of Canada's Official International Reserves April 1, 2013 - March 31, 2014 http://www.fin.gc.ca/activty/oirrep...i-14-eng.asp |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
Thanks for posting this information, very interesting
Works out to about $1750/oz CAD realized value after expenses
Price of gold varies between $1700 USD and $1300 USD, and Canadian dollar going from 1.00 to .90 per USD over the same time period.
If my math is correct, they netted between $50/oz and $300/oz CAD above the spot rate during the sale (Rough numbers) plus another $1.25 million in GST, as the coins are not .999.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Look up Heritage auctions Feb. 2013 or 14, a set of the RCM, own advertisement the best of the best, was graded poorly by PCGS, sold around 9000.US. 30,000 coins equals 60.00 a coin profits, created more HST tax. as with everything the RCM markets the overheads eats away most of the profits. Edited by john100
08/14/2015 10:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Another interesting tidbit, can't remember where I found it though, is the reason the gold hoard coins appear to look more "freshly gold" and pristine compared to later minted gold coin - pardon me the layman terms - is because the 1912-1914 coins were minted from raw gold nuggets, as opposed to newer gold coins which are made from "recycled" gold that's been melted down more than once.... old coins, jewellery, etc. I'd also suspect the melting/refining process from 100 years back wasn't as efficient as it is today, considering the bulk of lower grade gold coins. I can understand the threat of a flooded market to existing holders of those coins but I don't understand why the existence of the hoard prior to the sale for almost 100 years was virtually unknown. I suppose if it ever was the intention of the Canadian Govt to melt the entire lot on the sly, the risk that word would get out was high. I'd also think it's highly probable after the balance of the hoard was melted, it ended up with RCM, rather than its purchase from international markets. I hadn't realized RCM gold sales were so significant, therefore the gold hoard in terms of gold holdings versus volume sales in general is merely a drop in the bucket. November 2013 Mint Report "Today, the Royal Canadian Mint reported the achievements of another strong quarter.........The volume of Gold Maple Leaf (GML) sales increased 17.5% to 195 thousand ounces compared to 166 thousand ounces in the same period in 2012." http://www.mint.ca/store/news/royal....Vc38_kpOKrUEdited by wildflowerAB
08/14/2015 11:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Oh my goodness it was back in August that I began this search for a 1912 $5 and $10 coin and I'm delighted to say that it's finally come to an end! The more I looked the more choosey I became but overall it was an incredibly interesting experience. The advice that many of you so generously offered was invaluable and I wanted you to know how much I appreciated that!
I'm still waiting for a 2-coin case to arrive in the mail and I shall post a pic.
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Valued Member
Canada
395 Posts |
Glad to hear it hope to see some pictures soon. I have a 1912 $10 one myself not from the mint sale but from my grandparents I've had since I was a kid, wasn't too happy when the horde came out but it's a great coin.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
818 Posts |
Very interesting thread. Can't wait to see the coins. Congrats.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Somehow I ended up with one Quadrum Intercept holder and one regular Quadrum holder so this is in the raw. I also wanted to share a few things that I learned along the way: - It wasn't easy finding a $10, especially one that fell within my price range, while the $5 coins were far more available. - There was a sharp price increase in grades AU/MS62 and then MS63, sometimes always double in price. Commonly commented upon, the deviation of standards between ICCS and PCGS influenced my decision to focus on ungraded coins at the best price with good features and glimmer, as opposed to grade. (although some day I may have these graded) - As gold prices continued to rise in the recent past, our falling Cdn, buying from a US seller soon became out of reach. However I'd estimate well over half of the available selection, ebay, coin shops, are being sold by US sellers. That somewhat surprised me. - Definite premium over bullion and reasonably priced there's clearly a strong market for the gold coins. I missed 2 good opportunities by thinking it over for just one day. - I'm very pleased with the $10, the $5 is a lesser quality but overall I'm also glad the search is over.   |
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Replies: 38 / Views: 9,706 |
First Page
Posted 08/13/2015 8:04 pm
