| Author |
Replies: 13 / Views: 3,029 |
|
|
Valued Member
Belgium
464 Posts |
hello CCF do you guys think this is a genuine coin ? 8.8 grams kopper or bronze (i can't say for shure is there any way to detect?) and 23 mm my search brought me to ancient Rhodes but I can not find it on wildwinds http://wildwinds.com/coins/greece/rhodes/t.htmlthere is no seam from a cast but there is a small seam from pounding the metal but hat only about a cm and a bit long     thoughts,comments, just leave'm here thanks in advance  Edited by dohcollector 10/27/2015 08:52 am
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
Its trying to be from Caria, Rhodes but I am unconvinced.
You say it has no casting line...the bottom photo does show what looks like a line on the edge of the coin running around it (middle to the right hand side)
I would expect this type to be in silver...but this is just my gut reaction...I will have a look to see if I can find one of these.
|
|
Valued Member
 Belgium
464 Posts |
that was my first feeling too when I was looking this coin up and also I can not find a similar one that is what got me here
and yes I know it sounds strange but I can not explain good in englisch but its not a seam that go's all around the coin.
(not saying it can not be possible to be a fake), I just can not determine that realy, but if it is fake then it is not a cast fake but a pounded coin. imho...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
A casting seam is caused when cutting the rubber which surrounds the original coin in two. This rubber is then used to produce multiple wax copies of the coin which are assembled into a tree with a coin at the end of every branch. Plaster is poured around the waxes and once it is set it is heated so the wax runs out. The plaster is then set on a centrifuge and spun and the liquid metal poured in.
The rubber is cut in two with a scalpel, sometime the join can be quite clean and other times more apparent. (the natural place for a coin would be to cut to the edge but the join could run over the face of the coin too) When the plaster is broken open to reveal the cast coins the sprues (branches of the tree) need cutting off and filing round. Where this occurs the cast line will disappear (if it is done properly the coin edge should be round and smooth... if done badly there may be file marks and could be either a flat (filed too deep) or a bump (filed not enough)
I don't have the benefit of the coin in hand, but from the photo's it appears cast to me (porosity on the left leaf of the rose?) what appears to be a cast line in the lower photo.
Also something that doesn't ring true to me is the raised rim around the edge of the obverse. It is out of character for such a coin.
I hope someone more knowledgeable than myself can comment and tell me whether I am way off or not with this opinion.
Edited by DavidUK 10/27/2015 10:03 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1194 Posts |
I agree with David for the same reasons ;In general the coin is looking fake to me ,the colour is to brown , the shape of the letters...albert
|
|
Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
I agree with the others a modern cast cast copy.
|
|
Valued Member
 Belgium
464 Posts |
i tend to agree with you guys ,but there are no seams what so ever its kinda more like a part of a split planchet due to force and remeber this is a uncleaned coin the spot you just mentioned I removed/scraped some black residue that is quite thick,with a moist toothpick thats maybe why it seems like a lighter spot I did a bit more next to it.(photo added) the black residue may cause the image of a seam.along the boders of the flower stemms don't wanne come of as a know it all so I took some more pics extra cleaned spot  seams of black residue (removeble with vigerous toothpicking)  start of the crack/seam  coins turned a bit clockwise  complete crack/seam  some extra's   
|
|
Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
There is nothing about this coin that is correct. It is supposed to be silver, clearly this isn't. The overall detail is not what the original would look like. The patina is fake. As you say there doesn't appear to be a casting seam, but I bet if you look at the edge with a 10X magnifying glass you will see where one has been filed down and smoothed out. You will find many examples here of the real coins. http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/gree...hodes/t.html
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
You keep saying there is no seam... but surely I can see one running all the way around the coin....  I believe this line is caused where the two halves of the mould don't line up exactly. Clearly there has been some work done afterwards to smooth it out a bit...including the addition of the black to try and give the coin an old looking patina. I hope you can see what I am talking about since I indicate it with the red line. Any sort of line like this running around the edge of a coin should set bells ringing. Decent job with the photo's doh, they at least give us the chance to properly study the coin.
Edited by DavidUK 10/27/2015 2:15 pm
|
|
Valued Member
 Belgium
464 Posts |
ok techically it is a small seam but not a full cast seam like this   its only coveering a quarter of the coin edge and there are no no file marks of metal that was sraped away like this  but writing this I think I found the answer if it is fake and I think it is it probably is made tru this MO Fake Electrotype Coin mine looks alot like last pic 
Edited by dohcollector 10/27/2015 5:23 pm
|
|
Valued Member
 Belgium
464 Posts |
i thought I would get atleast one comment on that previous statement
Nhow I tagged it as a rhodes and in red I added 'possible FAKE!?'
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
The seems can vary (can be more or less obvious, can be straight or irregular) depending on the technique used to cast. There is more than one way to skin a cat!
File marks are just lazy...only on an item that nobody has taken care would you see them. They are easily removed with varying grades of emery paper.
I am not familiar with electrotyping really... I have experience at casting things in gold and silver so I know a little about that but I agree the bottom photo is reminiscent of your coin.
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16849 Posts |
Sorry, it's not a "possible fake", it's a "definite fake". This coin should not be made of copper/bronze. It has the typical "mushy details" of a cast fake.
Coins made out of the wrong metal like this are classed as "tourist copies", likely sold to tourists from cruise ships that frequently visit this part of the world.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Valued Member
 Belgium
464 Posts |
thx guys, its still a learning expiernce for me hence the questions ;)
and no need to say sorry I already tagged it as fake
|
| |
Replies: 13 / Views: 3,029 |
|