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Half Dollar Vs. Dollar Coins, American West, 1852

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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 04/21/2016  09:29 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm reading "The Complete Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant" (1885) and he touches on the use of the half dollar when he was posted to San Francisco and Ft Vancouver in the Oregon Territory...

After talking about the Hudson's Bay company introducing farming and herding horses and cattle, he says:


Quote:
Before the advent of the American, the medium of exchange between the Indian and the white man was pelts. Afterward it was silver coin. If an Indian received in the sale of a horse a fifty dollar gold piece, not an infrequent occurrence, the first thing he did was to exchange it for American half dollars. These he could count. He would then commence his purchases, paying for each article separately, as he got it. He would not trust any one to add up the bill and pay it all at once. At that day fifty dollar gold pieces, not the issue of the government, were common on the Pacific coast. They were called slugs.


(emphasis added)

Even at California prices, it would seem the dollar was too much money. He indicates

Flour was 25 cents per pound
Potatoes 16 cents per pound
Beets, turnips and cabbage, 6 cents per pound
Onions 37 1/2 cents per pound
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
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 Posted 04/22/2016  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack jeckel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These he could count. He would then commence his purchases, paying for each article separately, as he got it. He would not trust any one to add up the bill and pay it all at once.


Sounds like a lot of the "White Man" merchants tried to cheat the Native Americans using "crooked" math to confuse them on the grand total.
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 Posted 04/22/2016  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yup. And Grant was only out west for three years, 1852, 53 and 54 - and only in San Francisco and Ft Vancouver.

But one of the questions we as numismatists often ask is whether Gold really circulated, why the preferences for half dollars vs. dollars, etc.
-----Burton
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Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 04/23/2016  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You could buy a lot for a half dollar in 1852 and in California gold was found in 1848. I have read that soldiers and sailors deserted in droves to go mining for gold. People went mad. If rich gold deposits were found in Mississippi today people would flock there to buy up delta swamp and real estate agents would be touting "Beautiful dry ground with gold nuggets laying around in piles" to get suckers to buy land underwater.
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 Posted 04/23/2016  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay but the gold that you found panning for it was mostly dust. Occasional nuggets but mostly dust.

Dust is very hard to use in commerce. One man's pinch is not another man's pinch. You can lose a lot that just sticks to your fingers. There's a reason crack cocaine is sold in vials.

So the first thing you do when you hit town is you sell your dust to hopefully a somewhat honest assayer or broker.

Now how do you want your $132? A couple of $50 slugs minted by somebody who everybody knows and a pile of honest US half dollars. He already paid hefty fees to the assayer... why take the risk that your quote $10 unquote gold piece really only has $9 worth of gold in it.

-----Burton
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Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 04/24/2016  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I looked for this book and found it can be bought for $30 as a reprint, but the 1st edition can be had for about $100. Worth getting?
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 Posted 04/24/2016  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Slightly changing the subject, in 1852-1854 there were very few half dollars in Oregon and California. Small change was whatever form of silver was available, and any US silver sold at a premium. The gold fractionals appear to be more fiction than reality, first appearing in 1853. They are only 75% weight at most. The dollars probably saw limited circulation. But they are physically smaller than US gold dollars, weren't accepted by banks, and one major producer was arrested as a counterfeiter. It's interesting that Grant doesn't mention them at the time when they were available. It's further evidence that they were not seriously regarded as money.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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 Posted 04/24/2016  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Andrew - 99c Kindle book.

Depends if you are interested in US Grant or not. It's an older style autobiography, so it's a bit dry in places. I've always had a 'car' book for reading when I had a few minutes to kill waiting for my wife, etc. - the requirements are that it not be something I would get so into I would read it more than casually, had to be a large book and have many short chapters. I think it took me five years to read the biography of Peter the Great.

thq- Grant doesn't really discuss money much (so far I'm about 22% through it), except occasionally in terms of prices such as what I quoted where he was indicating how much more expensive it was in the West vs. New Orleans. He talks about Horse prices in the context of what a "$5 horse" was worth back when he was in Mexico. I don't recall ever seeing him say what his salary was. So I'm not sure the absence of the fractional gold says they weren't in circulation, BUT it is the kind of local curiosity that he does seem to recall when writing these memoirs in 1885.
-----Burton
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Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 04/25/2016  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But one of the questions we as numismatists often ask is whether Gold really circulated, why the preferences for half dollars vs. dollars, etc.

Well for one thing in the early 1850's there really weren't a whole lot of silver dollars available. Mintages were relatively low and they were all back east. Neither the San Francisco or CC mints were open yet, and New Orleans had produced a grand total of 99,000 coins. Half dollars had mintages in the millions including in New Orleans. So if you wanted large US silver coins, most likely what you got were half dollars. It's just a matter of what was available.
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 Posted 04/25/2016  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When you're in Vancouver be sure drink him a toast at his house.

The comment he made about how well accepted and available the $50 slugs were passes right on to silver coins. The army was using the most legitimate specie. Local barter is mentioned as pelts, not gold dust pinches and private issue small gold coins. I infer that pelts were more highly regarded. At least in Grant's mind.

As early as the 1820's the NWCo tokens became accepted as payment for pelts. They're about the same size as half dollars. Very few survive. They're easy to carry without getting lost (most are holed) and big enough to count.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
04/25/2016 09:37 am
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 Posted 04/25/2016  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Earlier on he comments about SF in 1852 when the Long Wharf was the only wharf about miners coming into town with their dust.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 04/27/2016  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grant wrote his autobiography with help from Mark Twain from what I have heard. He was broke and on his death bed. I don't think he was getting an Army pension, nor pension for being president. He had cancer of the jaw and it was killing him painfully. He was dosed on laudanum so I wonder how he could see straight. You know in British America the "Piece of Eight" was widely used since English pounds were hard to come by in 18th century America. I remember reading in "Two Years Before the Mast" that American sailors would sail around the Horn to get to California to trade for animal pelts. It took years to make the voyage if they made it at all before 1848.
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