Roman "bronze" Denominations After Valerian I?

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 1,023
Finn235 Pillar of the Community United States 6130 Posts	Posted 10/31/2016 11:48 am Kicking off a discussion topic on a slow forum day. It's pretty much common knowledge for Roman collectors that the antoninianus went from an obscure, uncommon denomination during the mid and late Severan period to being pretty much the only non-gold denomination by the time of Aurelian. The denarius was the currency of account at least until the time of Constantine I. What I did not know until recently is that the as, dupondius, sestertius, and denarius were made (albeit very rarely) until Aurelian's reforms and re-valuation of the antoninianus to the aurelianus. Do we know why these coins were made at all, when the antoninianus itself was a dime-sized coin with very little purchasing power and less than 5% silver? I am not sure whether they were rare in their day, or if everyone just melted them down to make the barbarous radiates. Anybody know the scoop? Report this Post to the Staff

Athalbert Pillar of the Community Spain 629 Posts	Posted 10/31/2016 1:59 pm I think that all these coins were struck to hide the fact that inflation had reduced the purchase power of all those antoninianus to a mere shadow compared with their original value... You can see that in the USA you are striking millions of small cents every year in spite of their reduced purchase power... all these coins cost more money than their facial value but nobody thinks in striking then in aluminium to save money. Ancient romans were of the same opinion... Report this Post to the Staff
Finn235 Pillar of the Community United States 6130 Posts	Posted 10/31/2016 3:35 pm I can definitely see that, but the scarcity or rarity of these coins doesn't seem to add up. The US penny may be worthless, but I will receive a few for nearly every cash transaction I make. Hardly seems like Rome would be able to entertain the ruse if these coins were so rare that most would never see one, let alone use them in everyday commerce. Report this Post to the Staff
FVRIVS RVFVS Pillar of the Community United States 3444 Posts	Posted 10/31/2016 6:40 pm The initial disappearance of the bronze denominations occurred during the great collapse of the Roman economy during the reign of the much maligned Gallienus. Bronze ( no longer orichalcum ) sestertii had been issued by both Valerian and Gallienus although in a reduced form. Postumus gave it the old college try and issued not only sestertii but also the hitherto rare 'double sestertius'. But it was impossible to restore a system so completely out of sync. Bad money chases out the good and Postumus repeatedly reduced his issues in a vain attempt to get them into circulation. Others like Probus made an effort but I suspect the issues may have been more for propaganda than economic. You can issue all the FORTVNA REDVX types you want but seeing a sestertius/as (albeit reduced) would have been good for the morale of the legions. They (and the bureaucracy) were the primary recipients of these coins. From them it was strictly a trickle down affair to the rest of the masses. Aurelian made one last big push to restore the old system. The bronze As of his is a respectable looking bronze coin and the silver washed AE denarius issued by him (and Severina) are fairly common and of better quality. But it took Diocletian to essentially throw out the whole rotten system in his total reorganization of the State. Under Diocletian the empire became a true military dictatorship and was ruled over by a military junta. The emperors become inviolate and unapproachable. Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS 10/31/2016 6:41 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Athalbert Pillar of the Community Spain 629 Posts	Posted 10/31/2016 9:17 pm What is the reason why actually in the USA you struck silver ounces with a "facial value" of 1 dollar when the mint sells those "dollars" at a price considerabily higther? Why don´t simply put a face value of 25 dollars? The reason is because it´s hard to assume that morgan and liberty dollars made from almost pure silver had gone and are not going to return again... You have replaced silver with nickel clad copper in your coins, the appearance was the same and the types were maintained but... ...it wasn´t the same! Report this Post to the Staff
jskirwin Pillar of the Community United States 616 Posts	Posted 10/31/2016 10:16 pm Quote: You have replaced silver with nickel clad copper in your coins, the appearance was the same and the types were maintained but... ...it wasn´t the same! No kidding. Tell that to our Federal Reserve. Report this Post to the Staff
Sap Moderator Australia 16857 Posts	Posted 11/01/2016 12:21 am The coins are scarce and not many types and varieties known of each, so mintages were low. They are also either rarely or never found in hoards. So I suspect they may have been produced primarily as "tokens" or for ritualistic purposes, rather than as actual money for circulation. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis Report this Post to the Staff
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Roman "Bronze" Denominations After Valerian I?