I Bet Austrowiki Will Absolutely Love These Mtt Counterstamps :)

The very first listing might actually be on a Chinese counterfeit MTT but I can't be 100% sure with out examining the coin.

Some predictions are very easy to make. Yep I Love them( not). I messaged that seller some time back expressing concern( read on). I had this seller in mind in my last post( a few weeks back that noted these counter-marks were still being produced today). There is also a Pakistan based seller.

The huge problem with these counter-marks is that it is really difficult to designate many of them as fake: Many are marks that have never been seen, and I assume never been produced, before. I have difficulty applying the term "fantasy" to them as they are often sold as being an official issue. This is what makes them nasty IMO. The producers and sellers, deliberately or unconsciously, rely on the principle that it is difficult to prove a negative. With an established market for spurious countermarks having been in place for decades, doubt is the best friend of these people

As much as I dislike these items I now think the seller is ultimately helping the hobby, but not in the way he intends. In the Arabian Peninsula it is not uncommon for counter-marks and even coins to be produced for sale to tourists. This is how the first counter-marks(On MTT) are believed to have entered the coin collecting consciousness in the 1950's and 1960s.

Counter-marking old coins purchased in the suk is legal. As much as I hate these issues I can't criticize the seller( or even the producer), legally, as in their culture they are doing absolutely nothing wrong(Still doesn't make me happy!). I had communicated with such sellers and this one in the past and they have stated quite openly to me that they can have more of these coins produced. Their response, to me, is that it is legal in their country and that they don't ever claim they are genuine. I travel to the middle east reasonably frequently and I have had to adjust my approach... I have found the moment sellers are asked they will tell you whether the item is new( meaning fake) or old ( which often means they don't know)
Unfortunately I don't even think the hobby protection act covers these sales, I could be wrong but the moment some one states "don't know" the onus is transferred to the buyer.

What really concerns me is the European/Western re sellers in my part of the world. There is one Auction house in my part of the world that lists such counter-marks for as high as €2000.00. I had spoken with them at the local coin show.

I can't name them because they will respond with lawyers.

When I have pointed out that some marks that they claim are 19th century are on base coins that were made after 1935, their response has always been to assure me they will tell the owner. I used to get really steamed until I realized they have had the same stock for several years and no one is buying! I suspect they purchased a large amount of stock from an infamous seller/Author (who is also suspected of being a producer of these marks) and are now stuck with them. They quite often relist the same counter-marked coins in each new Auction clearly demonstrating they have a problem.

Now back to the Saudi listing I am now going to say, perversely given my previous posts and stated attitudes, I hope they produce even more and increase their listing numbers. I believe the only solution is to have the market flooded by such travesties. If they flood the market, with counter-marked MTT they will collapse it( the market for countermarked MTT) and hurt the European/ western re-sellers. I will continue to point out to European and American Auction houses when they are selling MTT that are of a later production date than the marks they bear.

The problem that remains is novice collectors, So I repeat my oft stated warning. If you can't attribute an MTT to the place and period of minting you shouldn't be going near MTT bearing Counter-marks.

That is much more serious. The Countermarked MTTs are different as apart from a very small number of marks ( Portuguese) all the countermarks were only ever produced in the second half of the 20th century( and currently) for sale to Tourists and to special order for sale in the USA( particularly the first issues). The real problem is people believe they are actually gvt issues from as early as the first years of the 19th century. If the mark producers destroy the market for countermarked MTT then its only good as far as I am concerned. But when it comes to other coins that were indeed countermarked that is a very different matter.