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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,517 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
  I am, at the moment, unable to afford the price of the relevant reference material to attribute my sole example if this issue. If, per my normal habit, I decide this is the next "shiny object" and obsess about collecting Large Cents, I'll of course get the book but that hasn't happened yet. The important features, I think: 1) The date being high and tight on both the 1 and 4. 2) The lines extending inward from the rim next to the second star. 3) The "R" and "I" in AMERICA are at least touching and likely connected. For the record, the color reproduction of the reverse is closer to true than the obverse. A little red still peeks through in places, but copper so far exceeds my ability to accurately photograph color. I've gone through Heritage's archives and the closest I can come is N11, maybe N14, but I'm beyond my depth. Any copper specialists wish to help? You'll earn my undying gratitude and maybe a convert to the red/brown side. 
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Forum Kid
Kuwait
1523 Posts |
That coins very lovely, clear, sharp, Is it MS-63
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by thekidcollector
That coins very lovely, clear, sharp, Is it MS-63
Nope. My heart says AU55, but my brain says AU50. Note the hair just above the ear and the highest surfaces of the leaves on the reverse. Almost, but not quite. :) Edited by SsuperDdave
12/04/2005 2:38 pm
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
Thanks for posting such nice pics. I should be able to help you as I have the Newcomb book and the Grellman book. I'll try to have something for you this afternoon. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperDave
My heart says AU55, but my brain says AU50.
Wow, you must be hanging out with the EAC club. I would say you have a real shot at a 55 and maybe a 58 if the graders are feeling a bit generous. EAC would probably hit you at 50, but would still lowball you because of the hit on the cheek and throat. Would probably also have some concerns about the fields in front of the chin and behind the curls. The reverse looks a bit shiny in the fields, but that may be in the photo. Nice coin overall. I don't have my reference material on hand with me today, so I can't help with the attribution, however, if you do not have an answer by the time I get back from Baltimore, I will look it up for you. |
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
It looks to me like an N-21. Here are the criteria as taken from the Grellman book:
Point of bust is over left edge of upright of 1
Point of curl is midway between inner and outer right curves of 8
Point of bust touches the top of the 1
The top of the 4 just touches the curl
The left edge of the base of 1 is right of left edge of dentil
The left edge of the base of 1 is very close to the dentils
OBV:
Fine lines up to right from main and inner curls; others down to right from inner curl. Fine lines up to left from neck, mostly at throat. Curved line under left pendant of T. Lump in field just left of star 1 and a large flat spur into field from dentils at star 2, both hub defects seen on the early state of many varieties, but they are especially strong on the early state of this variety. The lines and hub defects fade and most disappear, but a faint trace of the hub defect left of star 2 remains visible (these hub defects should not be used as definitive attribution points). The curved line under the pendant of T remains visible and is the best attribution point for this die in the later states.
REV:
Line down to right from top of N in CENT to center of the left upright of that letter. Early examples have many lines down to right in the fields, strongest from leaf below up toward the first S in STATES, at tops of F-AM (incorrectly described by Newcomb as a die crack), and from dentils over first T in STATES down through wreath and left side of N in CENT to wreath below, strongest on left side of that N. Other parallel lines at different angle at ERIC. Strong line parallel to stem joins ribbon to first outside leaf on left. The lines fade and disappear, but a dull remnant of the line from the left top of N in CENT to its left upright remains visible. Develops a crack from dentils over A through top of ME exiting from near the center of the top of the E and extending to dentils over R (Newcomb's #40). (This crack is similar to the one on the later states of N-24, which exits from the right top of that E.)
Paragraphs in italics and blue are quoted directly from THE DIE STATES OF UNITED STATES LARGE CENTS 1840-1847 by John R. Grellman, Jr.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Susanlynn9
It looks to me like an N-21. Here are the criteria as taken from the Grellman book:
Point of bust is over left edge of upright of 1
Point of curl is midway between inner and outer right curves of 8
Point of bust touches the top of the 1
The top of the 4 just touches the curl
The left edge of the base of 1 is right of left edge of dentil
The left edge of the base of 1 is very close to the dentils
OBV:
Fine lines up to right from main and inner curls; others down to right from inner curl. Fine lines up to left from neck, mostly at throat. Curved line under left pendant of T. Lump in field just left of star 1 and a large flat spur into field from dentils at star 2, both hub defects seen on the early state of many varieties, but they are especially strong on the early state of this variety. The lines and hub defects fade and most disappear, but a faint trace of the hub defect left of star 2 remains visible (these hub defects should not be used as definitive attribution points). The curved line under the pendant of T remains visible and is the best attribution point for this die in the later states.
REV:
Line down to right from top of N in CENT to center of the left upright of that letter. Early examples have many lines down to right in the fields, strongest from leaf below up toward the first S in STATES, at tops of F-AM (incorrectly described by Newcomb as a die crack), and from dentils over first T in STATES down through wreath and left side of N in CENT to wreath below, strongest on left side of that N. Other parallel lines at different angle at ERIC. Strong line parallel to stem joins ribbon to first outside leaf on left. The lines fade and disappear, but a dull remnant of the line from the left top of N in CENT to its left upright remains visible. Develops a crack from dentils over A through top of ME exiting from near the center of the top of the E and extending to dentils over R (Newcomb's #40). (This crack is similar to the one on the later states of N-24, which exits from the right top of that E.)
Paragraphs in italics and blue are quoted directly from THE DIE STATES OF UNITED STATES LARGE CENTS 1840-1847 by John R. Grellman, Jr.
I believe you've nailed it, and I'm very appreciative of your effort. My original pics are twice the size of what I've posted, and contain enough detail to confirm the attribution. The "curved line under the pendant of T", almost invisible in my posted pics, does it. Ah, well. Thought I had an R4 there for a bit. I am, unfortunately, really intrigued by this process. I'm afraid I'll have to get the book, and that means more Large Cents. :) |
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
There are benefits to each of the Large Cent books. The Newcomb book is in Newcomb's own handwriting, so it's a very interesting book in and of itself. It is not very easy to use, but I like it in addition to the book by Grellman. The Grellman book is easier to use and utilizes a numeric system for the placement of various devices to define the Newcomb number. It is also updated since the Newcomb book. Penny Whimsey by William Sheldon is another great book that is full of valuable info and is easy to use. However, it only goes up to 1814. The other two books go up to 1857. BTW, I was able to see the line at the T with no problem. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Susanlynn9
.....BTW, I was able to see the line at the T with no problem.
Well, now you know why I take my pictures so large. :) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Susanlynn9
It looks to me like an N-21.
Definately N-21. The key is the line next to the "T" in Liberty. The reverse looks like an early strike for the die, as a lot of the other attributes are missing. Very good eye Susan. You are getting quite good at the attribution side of the hobby. I am quite proud of your dedication to learning this art. |
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
Thanks, ND. The attribution side is really becoming a main interest for me. It adds a lot to the hobby. |
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,517 |
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Posted 12/04/2005 2:37 pm
