Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Tyrant Alcohol Medalet-Washingtonian Society

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 1,850Next Topic  
New Member

United States
18 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2017  8:00 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Seanryan90 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have researched this medalet numerous times and have the basic information on Bales who made this medalet and I know alot about the Washingtonians but it has been really difficult to find more information on rarity and this specific piece, the Baker 332d. I have only found 1 other which has been deemed "unique" in auction graded AU-53. If anyone has any more information that would be great. Otherwise enjoy this beautiful piece of history!

Tyrant-Alcohol-Medalet-Washingtonian-Society

Tyrant-Alcohol-Medalet-Washingtonian-Society

Tyrant-Alcohol-Medalet-Washingtonian-Society
Pillar of the Community
MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2017  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll try to find my copy of Medallic Portraits of Washington book and see what info is on this.

-MV
Pillar of the Community
MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2017  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to the book I have, this medalet is silver.

Baker 332D has a plain edge instead of a reeded edge. 332D is listed as unique.

I took a look at the Heritage Auction archive and the one id'd as Baker-332D. It has two rosettes on each side (at roughly the 3 and 9 o'clock positions) whereas the one you post only has a single one in the same spots. The obverse of 332D has BALE F. under the wreath stems.

I then punched Baker 332 into the search box and took a look yours matches that one. The single rosette I mentioned above and on the obverse it only states BALE under the wreath stems. It should have a reeded edge.

I am not an expert but it appears that NGC has mistakenly attributed this as the 332D when it should be Baker 332. There is quite a price difference between the two.

I wouldn't rely solely on a third party grading company's attributions as they tend to make mistakes.


-MV
Edited by MeadowviewCollector
06/17/2017 2:03 pm
Rest in Peace
Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2017  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wouldn't rely solely on a third party grading company's attributions as they tend to make mistakes.


No! it can't be!

Also, Seanryan90;

New Member
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2017  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seanryan90 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all! I am almost embarrassed that I didn't look closer at the 332d that that sold on heritage as it is clearly a completely different die than this piece. I highly doubt that I will sell this in the future but I do feel obligated to send it back to NGC for proper attribution as to not let any future owner get confused. I appreciate the warm welcome to the forum and all of the help!
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2017  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two wayside preachers:
First:
"Alcohol is your worst enemy!"
Second:
"Make your worst enemy your best friend!"
New Member
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2017  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seanryan90 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Upon researching more on the same Heritage auction and in Bakers book it appears that mine is the Baker 332d and the one that sold on HA is another variety. It is a plain edge and the denticles are deceiving. I have some pictures of both sent out to a Washingtonian expert.
Edited by Seanryan90
07/09/2017 12:48 am
Pillar of the Community
MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2017  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let us know what the expert thinks. The book I mentioned in my first post is newer than Baker's by over 100 years and written by Rulau and George Fuld. These two are well-known in the exonumia field.

This isn't a field I am versed in so I tend to rely on books for guidance.

-MV
New Member
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2017  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seanryan90 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What does Rulau and Fuld say about the Tyrant Alcohlol medalets? A picture of that information would be great to have. He has stated that both my 332d and the other one are correct. Until himself or someone else writes a new reference that details the sub varieties they will both be referred to as 332d. This is coming from an expert who owns 75% of all known examples! No wonder it has been such a difficult puzzle to solve!
New Member
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2017  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seanryan90 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also after further investigation I have found out that without a shadow of a doubt NGC got this one right! Thank you to all of your help and I appreciate all of your feedback. It is definitely an honor to own a medalet so scarce that research is difficult!
Pillar of the Community
MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2017  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are a couple of scans of the pages from the book, Medallic Portraits of Washington 2nd Edition I cited earlier. I had trouble keeping them from getting blurry. On the second one, I put the Baker #'s since that was the only area that was blurry.


Tyrant-Alcohol-Medalet-Washingtonian-Society

Tyrant-Alcohol-Medalet-Washingtonian-Society
Edited by MeadowviewCollector
07/14/2017 6:41 pm
Pillar of the Community
MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2017  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In 2016, Neil Musante published a two volume book titled Medallic Washington perhaps this work might differentiate the different varieties of these. Here is a book review on the work http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v19n48a04.html

Thought I'd share this info too.

-MV
New Member
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2017  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seanryan90 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After enlisting the help of 2 of the best Washingtonian/Temperance collectors and dealers I have found that both mine and the one in Au are 332D and that until someone makes a sub variety then they will be referred to as such! Very excited to know that this already rare piece is even more hard to find!
  Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 1,850Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.36 seconds to rattle this change. Forums