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1800 1 Pence?

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akglen's Avatar
United States
170 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2008  5:43 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add akglen to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi,
I'm looking for any information on this coin. It is now the oldest coin I have and more then likely the smallest. I have looked on some of the sites recommended here but cannot find a picture with the same portrait as on the coin. Any mintage numbers and value would be appreciated.

1800-1-Pence?
1800-1-Pence?

Thanks,
Glen
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2008  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day, it's a silver penny. I'm pretty sure it's the smallest silver coin ever made in Britain.
In that era, there were also copper pennies: 1797, & 1806 are common dates, but nothing in between.
Anyway, these silver coins were made for a ceremony called "The Maundy". They were made in denominations of 1d, 2d, 3d, & 4d. A lot of people have "sets", but the mintages for each denomination were not the same, that is, they were not minted as sets.
see this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maundy_money
but note, it is incorrect in what it says in the paragraph beginning "Until 1820 ordinary silver coinage was used for the Maundy money ..."
In the era you are interested in, Maundy money was not minted every year, and so there are a lot of 1800 coins about, relatively speaking. Since the Victorian era, coins bearing a new date are minted each year.
I'm trying to put together a set bearing date 1820 - only missing the 3d.
The maundy coins were minted in 2008, and the penny is substantially similar to the one you have.

Another interesting feature of your coin:
it was made before the Act of Union 1800, so the legend asserts that George III is the King of "Great Britain [MAG. BR.], ... & Ireland [HIB]". In between these two, he also claims to be King of France (Abbreviated to FR). After 1800, the "United Kingdom" came into existence, as we know it today.

Have a close look at the portrait of the King, especially his clothes. They were very artistic in those times, and imaginative: the sculptor has put him in Roman armour, as if he were Julius Caesar. I think that this is one of the funniest portraits of any King or Queen, ever. Just my opinion.

Your coin has a lot of history, in spite of its size.
I'd take very special care of it.

Peter in Oz
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16861 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2008  02:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
...it's a silver penny. I'm pretty sure it's the smallest silver coin ever made in Britain...

Actually, Britain (or rather, England) did make silver halfpennies on occasion. The final issue was during the Commonwealth, circa 1650; these last silver halfpennies were really tiny, only 8mm across.

This particular portrait (which Peter likes so much) was only used for two dates on the silver penny, 1795 and 1800. Ol' King George was notorious for being displeased at his coin portraits, and was constantly having it changed.

No mintage figures are reported for these coins in Krause, and Spink doesn't list mintages. I presume the mintage figures were either unrecorded, not recorded for specific denominations, or lost.

CV for EF in Krause (3rd ed 2002) is $20. CV in Spink (39th ed 2004) is £25, though you have to remember that a British EF is equivalent to an American AU.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Edited by Sap
04/29/2008 02:41 am
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akglen's Avatar
United States
170 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2008  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add akglen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, and a few follow up questions?
Peter, from your statements, this coin could have been produced in a year other then 1800? I had noticed the difference in the portrait, in the pictures I found they showed him wearing a wreath? which made me think of the Roman empire also.
Sap, can you help me understand the lines or voids in this coin? They do not look like wear or misuse so I'm wondering if it's just the quality of the metal or caused by the minting process itself?
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2008  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day, I'm not saying that this coin was produced in other than 1800.
Since 1822, Maundy coins have been produced every year. Before that, there are gaps in the dates. Perhaps they minted a large quantity, and used it over the following years, and only minted again when they ran out.
For instance, according to Seaby, Maundy coins were minted in 1795, then 1800, 1817, 1818, 1820, 1822, etc. That's a lot of gaps.
The wreath, or "laureate" portrait, sometimes called the "bullhead" appeared on the "Great Recoinage" from 1816 until his death in 1820. In fairness, the King was in poor health during the latter years of his life, and the Prince of Wales was Regent from about 1810.
Peter
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16861 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2008  03:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Sap, can you help me understand the lines or voids in this coin? They do not look like wear or misuse so I'm wondering if it's just the quality of the metal or caused by the minting process itself?

Quite correct on both counts, I believe.

To me, the streaking and peeling look like lamination flaws, resulting from impurities and air bubbles, trapped in the original silver ingot, were flattened and stretched when the ingot was rolled and flattened into the metal strip prior to having the planchets punched out.

I've often seen this effect on copper coins, but rarely on silver. But then, I've rarely looked at British silver coins of this time period under that much magnification.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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NumisMattyUk's Avatar
United Kingdom
2217 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2008  06:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisMattyUk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sold one of these for about 9 or 10 GBP on ebay a month or so ago, but it was lower grade. Of course it is a Maundy Penny, there were no regular circulation Pennies (copper) for this year...

Value is 25 GBP in VF according to Coin Yearbook 2007 and 45 GBP for one in XF.

I would put your coin at VF in grade and on ebay it would go for anywhere between 10 and 25 GBP, with 25 being the 'dealer price' that you might attain, however it is slightly more common than most dates as I have seen it several times on ebay already...

Edited by NumisMattyUk
05/02/2008 06:16 am
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