A Louis XVI Medal ? Did I Identify It Correctly.?

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Author	Replies: 9 / Views: 2,228
TxSnipper New Member United States 4 Posts	Posted 04/12/2018 7:30 pm hello to all, and maybe someone can tell me if I am on the right track regarding a medal my father gifted me in his passing last year. so here are the details (photos at bottom) of what I think this Medal is. please correct me of suggest a different identification of it. and if anyone thinks I should insure this for any amount (if worth anything). From my research and it is hard to confirm from the coin itself since it is quite faded, the exact coin, but I believe it is a coin identified in an three ancient books published and digitized in google books called; Catalogue des medailles existant dans la monnaie royale des medailles Catalogue des poinçons, coins et medailles du Musee Monetaire, edition 1833 Catalgues de antiquite du muse de toulouse, 1865" While In using the date and few words of references I could read on the medal I found; 29. Lod XVI. Rex - Christianiss - B. Duvivier Rev. AD XII puerorum et XII. Puerllarum Gratuit. Educationem hospitium a Nie. Beaujon Reg. Con. Fundat an. 1784 Dim. 18 Lig. 41. Fondation de L'hospice Beaujon Rev. Inscription" AD XII Puerorum et xii. Puelarum gratuity educationem hospitium a Nic. Beaujon reg. cons. Foundat mdcclxxxiv (Hospice pour l'education gratuits de douze Jeunes gesn et douze jeune filles, fonde par Nicolas Beaujon, consiller du roi en 1784 - Mod. 18lig 1735. Fondation del'hopital Beaujon 1784. Diam. 0m042 "AD XII puerorum et XII puellrarum gratuity. Educationem hospitium a Nic. Beaujon Reg. Cons. Fundat. Hospice fonde par Nicola Beaujon. Conseiller du Roi pour 'education gratuits de 12 garcons et 12 filles. Benjamin Duvivier (1730-1819) was a well known medalist an engraver, whom an in 1762 the king granted him the position of his dead father 'Jean Duvivier' as medalist for the King. I am wondering if there is a better way to confirm this is a Medal given to someone for what I translated as a 12 boys and 12 girls free Hospital education. My research shows Nic. Beaujon might be relates possibly to a banker in the 18th century of the name Nicholas Beaujon. There was an hospital in the 18th century in the 8th arrondissement of Paris by the Name Nichola Beaujon. There was also an orphanage adjacent to the Hospital ( still present at 208 Rue du Faubourg Saint Honore) The Hospital was consecrated as such only after the death of the said Mr. Beaujon. Could this coin/medal be related to all these events? I cannot seen to connect the words I have on my medal to any known medals of the time or date . Am I holding the right medals or something else? And out of sheer curiosity, what should I insure such a medal with my insurance ? Any help or guidance to whom I should enquire would be appreciate. Report this Post to the Staff

alganbagerap Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2490 Posts	Posted 04/12/2018 8:03 pm Thank you. We rarely have first time enquiries as well prepared as yours and, incidentally you've found a book I was previously unaware of. Your research does you credit and I think you are very much on the right lines. The image of the medal's reverse clearly illustrates the problem, I've tried playing with it by reversing it out to negative and by going full blast on contrast but still can't read much. All I can say is that the Obverse is well known but you may have to wait until a collector with the same piece recognise the Reverse before you get a definitive answer. Good luck. Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7955 Posts	Posted 04/12/2018 8:18 pm I am not an expert on French medals of this era, but I have several, including one by the elder Duvivier. SO, you should wait for comments by other experts here, but my first impressions are these: 1. You have done great research! Kudos for that. 2. There are many medals from this era in France, and the ones that have some numismatic value are usually in very good condition, with very little wear, and none of the nicks seen on your medal. 3. If you are concerned about its value for insurance purposes, I am pretty sure you can stop worrying. It probably has greater sentimental value than collectors value. It's a very cool historical artifact of a period of time in France that preceded the revolution. That gives it historical value, even if the financial value turns out to be modest. Report this Post to the Staff
sel_69l Bedrock of the Community Australia 21788 Posts	Posted 04/12/2018 11:38 pm I usually do an intensive, but patient Google Images search to identify unknown medals. Try a few different search approaches. Report this Post to the Staff
TxSnipper New Member United States 4 Posts	Posted 04/13/2018 10:22 am Thank you all for the encouragements, surprisingly enough, or not, since as I understand the way this coin came down was from a relative of the family through paternal grandfather down to my father (yes we are all French) de Bureaux pre-revolution named, and yes aristocrats of the time, in large in the Paris Area Anyways yes, I am more a genealogist than a Coin Master. The provenance is old and not so clear, I am still working on the connection how to coin turned into the hands of my family. That said, I understand it havig no value aside it uniqueness value (these Medals where given to a Singular person for an Act done on the behalf of the King of the Time. and as a few have mentioned correctly there is whole catalogues of them, but each is an individual item, and since my father has had it prior the second world war from his own Father, it has seen alot of rough times, and I beleive never been photographed anywhere for it to show up on Googlle image search to ever show up until now. Nor in theory another "collector" have the identical coin. But I will look, maybe a museum photo may show up. PS: the only other 2 items passed down where 76 and 84 nickle canadian dollar coins, and my numismatic search already dug up nothing "in demand or worth much" again probably more sentimental value to my father (1976 was Montreal OIlympics where he resided,and I know at the time, he did get a 100$ gold coin from it, my Mother wears it around her neck (I shoudl get you a picture its really beautifully turned into a center piece of jewelry), anyways I am rambling on. I truly appreciate the Forum, and the expertise you provide. Side note I did do a search and I am trying to communicate with the museum that has from my research a "similar" (tries hard to not say imitation, as engraver on coin is not and never was engraver for the king louis XVI in 1784) of my coin, engraved by a someone else. which is interesting .. the hunt continues.. AHAH http://parismuseescollections.paris...-principales link to museum Edited by TxSnipper 04/13/2018 10:54 am Report this Post to the Staff
alganbagerap Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2490 Posts	Posted 04/13/2018 5:21 pm Again, very good research. I do have to differ with you on one thing though. "That said, I understand it havig no value aside it uniqueness value (these Medals where given to a Singular person for an Act done on the behalf of the King of the Time. and as a few have mentioned correctly there is whole catalogues of them, but each is an individual item" The medal illustrated by the museum has the identical wording to yours. These were not produced individually, particularly in bronze or copper, but in this instance probably given as thanks for a donation towards the children's home. Most interesting is the Duvivier/Droz switch. Droz engraved the classic Napoleon coin bust while employed by the Paris Mint. Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 189222 Posts	Posted 04/14/2018 12:01 am to the Community! Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
TxSnipper New Member United States 4 Posts	Posted 04/14/2018 07:48 am alganbagerap : I think the Droz Coin is a reproduction that was done later, unless he was one of the engravers under duvivier, maybe possible, there is a straddle of dates. what is even more interesting, that museum sells that droz coin as a reproduction (with purchase of course) to everyone. if in fact there was many engravers under duvivier and multiple molds where done to "generate a mass productions"; a) would each engraver mark their name on the mold, thus explaining the droz/duvivier, and also point Droz was hire by Duvivier? b) How much a circulation of coins do you think would of been made, for a Hospital learning center for 12 boys and 12 girls? a rather modest thing, Beaujon was very rich I wonder if the teaching hospital for boys and girls was a second project, and the Hospice itself (engraved by Droz) maybe be another. (sorry if this historical-archeology is boring, Ill take it elsewhere... I just never done "research on a coin or medal to find provenance.) Report this Post to the Staff
alganbagerap Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2490 Posts	Posted 04/14/2018 10:33 am It's probably a re-engraving. I'm assuming that this was produced by the Paris Mint, Monnaie de Paris, in which case they could strike you the same medal today. For a price, and from the original dies. One method, although not entirely foolproof, to distinguish between an original and a restrike is that original medals of late C18th -early C20th had a slightly rounded edge. Restrikes have a square edge. As to your little beauty, why were medals made? We live in an age of instant recognition. Books, magazines, newspapers, TV, movies, and of course the internet and social media. At the time of this medal, literacy rates were much lower although better in France than many of her neighbours. Medals were part of the social media of the time. Perish the thought that Beaujohn was a self publicist, but he held an extremely high state position and its not inconceivable that he had these medals made and distributed as a public demonstration of his largesse. As the portraits of the two medals are identical, it's probable that they were taken from the same original master with only the signature changing. Report this Post to the Staff
Dorado Bedrock of the Community Canada 24885 Posts	Posted 04/14/2018 12:32 pm To the Forum. Edited by Dorado 04/14/2018 1:13 pm Report this Post to the Staff
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