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Help ID Ancien Gold Coins

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 1,473Next Topic  
New Member
cmaroun's Avatar
Lebanon
8 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  03:42 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cmaroun to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello again,

Couldn't retreive any information on the below coins.
Your help is much appreciated.

Weight: 8.5g
Size: 17.0mm

Help-ID-Ancien-Gold-Coins
Help-ID-Ancien-Gold-Coins
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  04:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the most faked of all ancient coins, even in high quality gold. Fakes are often made from modern melted gold coins.
As you can see, the same type as my avatar.

My example came from Spinks (London) in 1978. I still have all of the polaroid photographs and purchase paper documentation, to prove provenance. Essential to keep these records.

Weight is right, diameter is right, style OK,
but if I were to buy them, I would need to
1. have it checked with an XRF instrument,
looking for trace elements, not gold.
2. I would also seek a corroborative opinion of an ancient coin auctioneer specialist, and
3. have an independently proven provenance.

Fortunately, I have had access to XRF, and professional ancient coin auctioneer experience for many years.

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The obverses of these two pieces look suspiciously shiny.
Edited by sel_69l
04/23/2018 04:17 am
New Member
cmaroun's Avatar
Lebanon
8 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  04:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cmaroun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed these are the same as your avatar, but what is the year and name of this coin in case it was real?
Again what should show up in the XRF if the coin was real?

+ The hair is slightly different on both coins + the ear shows up on one and not on the other.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The British Museum has done some extensive and detailed destructive testing in relation to the proportion of trace metals found in various ancient gold coins.

I feel sure that if these were coins were submitted for XRF testing to the British Museum, they could compare the proportion of trace metals found in XRF testing, with their previous research findings.
Some of the major coin dealers that have a respected international reputation, should also have access to the British museum research findings.

At least, you should get an authoritative opinion about these two coins, that you may submit.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the community

An gold is not my area of collecting, and it is difficult to say just from a picture whether a it's genuine or not. Testing with and XRF instrument as Sel stated would need to be done, also provenance where the coin came from would also help.
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Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From my quick research, I think the detailing on the hair and laurel leaves is probably enough to condemn both as jewler's copies - hopefully struck in solid gold and not plated lead.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They (purport to be) gold statere of Philip II of Macedon. The reverse, with the biga drawn by two horses, is one of the most instantly recognizable of the "famous" ancient coins, right up there with the Athenian owls.

Underneath the biga and horses is ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΥ or PHILIPPOU (Philip) in Greek.

I have no idea about authenticity; that's far beyond my knowledge, but authentication is a must, as Finn and SEL stated above.

Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
04/25/2018 9:21 pm
Valued Member
ancient67's Avatar
France
331 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2018  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ancient67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am very doubtful about the hair of both obverse and about the head of the horses on the reverse : the style doesn't look genuine to me. But I am not a specialist, you need in any case to look for an authoritative assessment.
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