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How Deep Can The Sigma Precious Metal Verifier Large Wand Adapter See Into

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24K's Avatar
United States
15 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2018  04:46 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 24K to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello all, new member here. I am trying to figure out how deep the precious metal verifier Large wand adapter can see into .9999 gold.

My problem is I have a bar that is deep but I believe also not wide enough for the Bullion Adapter. Measurements are 19 Mm, Width
33mm length and 5mm thickness. The bullion wand claims Bars and coins must be at least 24 mm in diameter for measurement with the Bullion wand.

To further complicate things the only information I can find on the depth capability of the wands / sigma device doesn't specify regarding .999+ gold. Here is the quote from the manual on their website

Our new Bullion wand can measure deeper into the surface of precious metal bars in order to detect counterfeit metals underneath. The Bullion wand can detect tungsten up to 1.5 mm under a cladding of gold. The main sensor and all of the wands will penetrate a little over twice as deep into 22 K gold, 90% gold, platinum and palladium as compared to pure gold, silver, and silver alloys. The higher the resistivity of the metal, the deeper the signal penetrates.

I am not quite sure how to calculate the " diameter " of a gold bar, so I'm assuming since the manual mentions the width, and it's obviously the smaller measurement, that's what we would go off of. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. According this direct graph from their site, following the measurements I believe I would only be able to use the Large bullion wand. https://www.sigmametalytics.com/upl...on_Guide.pdf

My main concern right now is because the bar is so thick, but also not very wide, that the large wand would not be able verify that far into the bar, and that the bullion wand simply would not work.. unless I'm extremely bad at math. So I'm trying to find the depth the large wand works at, and I find it odd that they only list the depth of the bullion wand, but not the other sensors. Thanks for your time.
New Member
24K's Avatar
United States
15 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2018  06:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 24K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After digging and digging through every single online document on this device I have found that the main sensor can see gold over Tungsten at a depth of .4mm ( presumably for .999+ gold, as it states it reaches 1mm for 22k gold. )

Then it claims the large and small wands only read down to .25mm

Then it gives contradictory information regarding the diameter of the bullion wand.

From one manual it claims " The bullion wand will not work with standard coins. The item being measured must be at least 22 mm diameter and completely cover the sensor surface. "

From another it claims " bars and coins must be 24mm in diameter for measurement with the Bullion wand. " Both statements come the same documents straight from the manufacturers site, so I'll go with 24mm as it appears more often and in the graph:

So Main sensor 0.4mm, small and large wand .25mm, and Bullion wand claiming 1.5 gold of gold over tungsten detection although multiple sources have listed 2mm.

Regardless it appears ( unless somehow I am wrong about my math )

1 I cannot use the main sensor, 2 I can use the large sensor to detect a whopping .25 depth on both sides ( wow.. ) and the only adapter I care about, the bullion wand, won't even work because the bar trades width for thickness.

Ultrasonic testing can be confused with powdered tungsten from what I've read, specific gravity is too narrow, and this device would only read under .25mm out of 5mm.. leaving a whopping 4.5mm untested.

Sorry I didn't do my research well enough before I posted, but at least it's all here if anyone wants to reference this device in the future.

The only thing left would be if somehow 19 mm width over 33mm length would somehow work out to a 24mm diameter bullion wand, which makes absolutely no sense.. regardless of where I'd put the probe I'd imagine it would never cover it completely unless I reach the fourth dimension.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2018  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Specific brand and model?
New Member
24K's Avatar
United States
15 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2018  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 24K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@moxking I am unsure as I do not own one as of right now, but was reading off their website. So the brand would be sigmametalytics, latest firmware, non pro version.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188197 Posts
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24K's Avatar
United States
15 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2018  03:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 24K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you jbuck, appreciate the welcome, my apologies for the long winded first few posts, just trying to figure this all out.

I love the machine in theory, but whether it's practical or affordable is another thing entirely. If I was running my own shop or buying PMs every week I would probably grab the pro for 1500, but ideally would love to make the base model work.
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mr1030's Avatar
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2018  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mr1030 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have one and I have been very satisfied with it. I don't know the exact penetration depths, but I can say that I has served me fine with virtually all the coins and bars that I have bought. Obviously it wont be able to scan a bar with the thickness of a kilo or 100 oz size. But on thicker pieces, a good practice is to take multiple measurements on each and all sides of the bar. I have all of the available wands, and if you can buy the additional larger size wands that are available, they can give you deeper penetration then the main sensor. I use the main sensor 90% of the time. The LCS I frequent has the pro model and they like it. It is very nice since it places a sensor on two sides of the item being measured, and can tell you how thick it is, and if there are any inconsistencies in the resistance through the bar. If you are buying from possibly sketchy sources the regular model is well worth getting for the typical purchases you see most people on this forum buy.
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jbuck's Avatar
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188197 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2018  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thank you jbuck, appreciate the welcome, my apologies for the long winded first few posts, just trying to figure this all out.
Do not sweat it. Most of us took a while to settle in here.
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