ICCS // NGC Cross Continuum...and Some Observations.

5? Misattributes? If it's a variety that is recognized by NGC and listed as such on the submissions invoice, then it's listed as such if it is.

If someone submits without listing it as a variety it will be caused as a no variety example.

CoinHunter;

I don't present myself as an experienced grader and will defer to most on this forum but I would like to ask you the question under categories 1,2,& 3 in your list, who do you believe ICCS or NGC? I infer from your post that you think ICCS are inconsistent on problem coins and NGC makes varietal mistakes but on a plain vanilla VF, EF, AU, MS... whose grade would you believe?

I'm not sure there is a right answer to your question(s). It largely depends on who you ask and even where you live and collect. Some collectors don't believe in TPGs at all, some believe in them too much. I guess the standard cliche response by many collectors would be "Buy the coin and not the holder" and that certainly proves to be true...BUT...A more refined version of that should be "For best value, buy the most eye appealing coin not the most appealing grade" (Raw or graded). There are MANY high graded coins that have zip eye appeal (to most) and sell for a fraction of their book values. At the other end, there are many very pretty coins that get excellent per grade price performance because of their eye appeal. The formula obviously gets more complex with more rare coins where eye appeal is often traded in for the chance to own one but that's a whole different chapter on collector psyche. In my opinion, in the day and age of internet sales and trading, TPGs have become an integral part of collecting (or at least online trading). They play an essential role in establishing a relatively rational base price for a coin. I think if you learn the nuances and the pros/cons of each TPG, you're ahead of the game. Who to believe?...Well, even with it's issues, ICCS still holds significant support in the Canadian market and will continue to do so. As a Canadian dealer, I still send many of my coins to ICCS to resell. However, the market support for ICCS (and this is my opinion only) has become more of a habit that a test of grading acumen. Largely because it is very cost efficient, recognized in Canada, ease of resale, dealer supported and because many coins can be numerically graded that would otherwise fail the NGC/PCGS sniff test. NGC (&PCGS) on the other hand is a world coin grader and to them Canada is just another piece of the world and therefore doesn't get "extra" attention and/or variety knowledge that ICCS offers. It often grades higher in mid grades but the market generally discounts NGC holdered coins for that reason. But it does open the US market for Canadian coins and offers a certain level of guarantee that a coin is relatively problem free and certainly protects the buyers with respect to authenticity. It offers significantly better statistical information on graded coins and provides public registry set options for collectors.

Coinhunter: I agree with your comment about a "sniff test" as applied to ICCS. My big fault with them is that they almost completely ignore the surface, the surface luster or lack thereof, artificial toning and obvious cleanings. The are the epitomy of "technical grading" ..meaning wear only. They seem like they have broken thumbs when it comes to anything that should be in the "remarks" section and they are adverse to body-bagging anything when, in fact, they should hand out more bags or "details" coins. Needless to say, I see little or no use for any TPG unless you are a very active dealer or a high-end/high dollar collector.

Thanks to everyone who answered; there is a lot of good information here and a lot to digest. I own a couple of coins from ICCS & NGC though I have never submitted to either myself. I have considered ICCS just to see if what I would grade a coin is consistent with what a TPG would grade. I am reluctant to use NGC or PCGS simply because I want to avoid border complications and because I am collecting, not reselling, the value of a TPG holder is less important to me.

At the end of the day, I buy what I like to collect but it is good to understand whether the asking price of a coin is appropriate to the market value.