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20 Dollar Coin Certificate?

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PSPVinyls's Avatar
United States
150 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2008  9:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PSPVinyls to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Is this worth getting?
http://www.911twenty.com/

I know it's mostly for remembrance of 9/11 but do you think it is worth the face value and should the The National Collector's Mint be trusted for things like these?
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2008  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Government authorized non-circulating Liberian legal tender

I think the plane ticket to Africa will set you back a bit more than 20 bones
NCM is nothing but a peddler of overpriced junk
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malissadawn's Avatar
Canada
1931 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add malissadawn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with biokemist. I ordered the Twin towers coin that they were making where the trade center actually stands up from the middle of the coin. I ordered 2 coins and 2 special cases. What I got was double billed on my visa, no coins and only one billing reversed. Not a very trustworthy company at all. You'd be better off sending $20 to the widow's fund and keeping your receipt as a remembrance. IMO :)
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eaglefoot's Avatar
United States
6326 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eaglefoot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's worth nothing more than silver melt value.......whatever it "weighs" is what it's worth.......and that's it !
Liberia, Africa does have an association with the U.S. (from the Carter days I believe) and has minted things before with Kennedy...even Reagan I think.
So, in things like that, with foreign countries minting/printing U.S. Commemorative things and tied in with "private coin companies".......melt value only....
If it didn't come from the U.S. Mint.....be VERY skeptical !........worse yet "The Liberian Government" (or any foreign Govts. printing U.S. associated things like our Presidents, 911, etc. etc.)
99.999 Silver can be a "eye catching" sales technique.....but it isn't worth anything beyond the silver content in this case for sure !
Valued Member
United States
201 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Steamwalker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw a commercial for this the other day; it gave me quite a chuckle.
Valued Member
United States
133 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2008  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ocsjr2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 99.999 silver part sounds good, but the word LEAF is bad when it comes to silver content, meaning there isn't very much of it. A very,very thin layer on each side of this bill and presto, you have silver leaf.
New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2008  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add metallbarren to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Run the other way! Gold leaf is bad enough silver is even worse. No one wants to buy that stuff on the secondary market.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16808 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2008  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
eaglefoot said:
Liberia, Africa does have an association with the U.S. (from the Carter days I believe) and has minted things before with Kennedy...even Reagan I think.

Liberia has a stronger association than that. It was founded by the American Colonization Society back in the early 1800's as a place where freed American slaves could be "sent back where they came from". Indeed, much of the modern civil strive and warfare in Liberia in recent years has been between descendants of the freed slave "settlers" and descendants of the native Liberians.

As a de-facto American colony (even though it declared independence in 1847), it has had very close ties with the mother country, including the currency. However, you should be aware that the US and Liberian dollars no longer circulate at par as they once did; there are currently 63 Liberian dollars to the US dollar, so the "face value" of L$20 is now about US30¢.

Finally, note use use of the phrase "private striking". I seriously doubt that the present government of Liberia is aware that the NCM is still making "coins" like this in their name.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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PSPVinyls's Avatar
United States
150 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2008  09:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PSPVinyls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for all your help everyone!
New Member
United States
1 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2008  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TShultz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen a few commercials for this lately, much like the 911 commemorative coin that another user mentioned, and I can't help but feel kind of sad. I'm not sure which is worse - that private companies like these exist at all, or that they are willing to use a national tragedy to try and make a quick buck.

My own feelings aside, as others have mentioned, pressings like these are worth only the melting weight of the silver. The funny thing about the way they are advertised is that they say they are made with ".999 pure silver-leaf!" - which is a great way to fool people that don't know the difference between "pure silver" and "pure silver leaf" - most people, I would venture.

"Metal leaf" is an extremely thin layer of metal - foil thin, really - that is used purely for decoration. Gold leaf, for example, is generally pounded down to about 1/10000 mm (yes, one ten-thousandth of one milimeter, or 100 nanometers) in thickness. 2g of solid gold can be pounded into a one square meter (1 m^2) sheet that is 100 nm thick. Assuming (just for illustration) that silver leaf is the same thickness, that ".999 pure silver-leaf" you get on that metal bill is .0001mm thick around the outside of the bill. The rest of the "bill" is who knows what - not silver, at any rate.

For kicks, let's run a few numbers. The present bid value of an ounce of silver is $18.84 USD. So a gram of silver (1oz = 28g) is $0.67 USD. Now, assuming that silver leaf can be pounded into sheets of similar size/thickness as gold, let's take a look. The dimensions of this "bill" are 3.125" x 7.375" = 23.1 square inches per side, so a total surface area of 46.2 square inches, or 3.84 square feet.

If the surface area of these bills is roughly 3.84 square feet, then assuming the thickness noted above, we can set up the following ratio: (2g/3.2ft^2 = x / 3.84 ft^2), and find that the amount of pure silver needed to produce enough silver leaf to cover this bill is 2.4 grams. At a value of $0.67 / gram, assuming pure silver is used (.999, close enough), you're looking at approximately $1.34 of silver leaf in each of these bills - assuming you don't lose *anything* in the melting process.

Now, admittedly, I made a few large assumptions concerning the thickness of the leaf used, the amount of pure silver required to produce that much silver leaf, and so on - but you can get a general idea of just how much "silver" you're getting with one of these.

Not much.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187702 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2008  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TShultz!


Quote:
At a value of $0.67 / gram, assuming pure silver is used (.999, close enough), you're looking at approximately $1.34 of silver leaf in each of these bills
It is even worse than that. One foot squared is 144 square inches, not 12. These "bills" are actually 0.32 square feet (both sides), requiring around ten cents worth of silver.

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PSPVinyls's Avatar
United States
150 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2008  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PSPVinyls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silver and Gold Leaf is what I use when I work on firetrucks and signs, I definitely know how thin that stuff is!
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KinteSmith's Avatar
United States
58 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KinteSmith to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does any one own an item directly purchased from this NCM?

http://www.nationalcollectorsmint.c...ath=-1&id=-1
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ratio411's Avatar
United States
1208 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratio411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's $20 legal tender... 20 Liberian dollars.
What is the exchange rate on that nowadays?
Maybe 12 cents?
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187702 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2008  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A little better than that. $20 Liberian is about $0.32 US...

As of this minute, 1 LRD = 0.0158353 USD (1.00 USD = 63.1500 LRD)
Edited by jbuck
07/17/2008 11:50 am
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ratio411's Avatar
United States
1208 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2008  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratio411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the dollar IS devaluing more and more everyday...
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