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2008 P Arizona Quarter- Something Different.

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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  01:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Got this quarter in change today- along with a Normal Arizona quarter

This looks like the extra cactus leaf but it covers almost 2 of the initials below. Its single- the 2008 date is normal- no extra leaf over the top of the 2.

The other thing is there seems to be an extension of the banner area and additional metal above the flower that almost seems like the end of the banner but sharp pointing upward!

The normal coins banner just ends straight and abrupt.

The normal banner stops between the A & T of States- on this coin it goes to the other side of the A- closer to the T.

Definitely different from anything that I've seen, at least on E-bay,
right now for Arizona State Quarters.


Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. Arizonadiechip1.jpg
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Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. Arizonadiechip2.jpg
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Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. ArizonaComparison2.jpg
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chuckster 125's Avatar
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4113 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some additional close-up pics.

Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. ArizonaSet2jpeg1.jpg
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Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. ArizonaSet2jpeg4.jpg
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Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. ArizonaSet2jpeg2.jpg
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Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. ArizonaSet2jpeg3.jpg
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

There are several articles that have appeared in numismatic publications pointing this out.

There are inherent weaknesses in the design and the portions of the dies that are stressed most will break away.

These die chips on Arizona quarters are as common as sand:-)

From the picture, it seems that the banner is effected by a die chip as well.

Thanks,
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
07/14/2008 2:06 pm
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Funny that none of the hundreds of denver mint coins that I have looked at show the same weakness.

Maybe they were just all earlier die state coins ?
Valued Member
seattleMD's Avatar
United States
405 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seattleMD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Denver is notorious for producing less varieties - I think they have much better quality control the the philly mint.
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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bill:

With respect to your remark about the die-chips being as common as sand for Arizona State Quarters,

Could you please either reference or post a list of ALL die-chip errors for this State- I'd really like to know exactly how many different die-chips are out there, besides the one that I have.

Thanks,
Chuck.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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3507 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Die chips occur randomly and dies that have inherent design weaknesses will break producing chips at various spots. A coin could be struck by a die with one chip, two chips or twenty-three skidoo chips.

As far as I know, they are not being referenced by anyone. To ask for all the die chip errors on a particular states quarter does not make any sense.

Another example of this can be seen on a huge number of Utah States quarters where chips develop between the outer parts of the locomotives and the rims.

It is a common anomaly and as such, they are interesting but they are not kept track of.

Thanks,
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
07/14/2008 7:02 pm
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seattleMD's Avatar
United States
405 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2008  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seattleMD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
'skidoo chips' huh? is that a technical numismatic term?
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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2008  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bill;

So, if they are not being referenced by anyone that you know of , and there is no list of the "Arizona State Die Chips"- maybe, just maybe, THIS specific Arizona State Quarter is not as common as "Sand" after all.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2008  01:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Guys,

A few points. I said: "These die chips on Arizona quarters are as common as sand:-)" and ...they are. I didn't say your quarter specifically, although for the reasons I will mention below, there will likely be many more just like yours. In fact there are die chips that can found in each series of the States quarters.

Any combination of die chips is possible based upon where the dies will want to break. Many dies will break similarly due to the design. It is a known fact in numismatics that when details are sunk into a die and the details are very close to each other or there are small portions like the insides of zeroes, that those spots on the dies will, after huge numbers of poundings begin to break. The result is that when they break away from the die, what we call die chips will result on the coins struck from that die.

Die chips are common and unless a die shatters, the die will continue to be used. When you figure out the number of dies used, and the numbers of coins struck from each die, coins like yours will be everywhere because the dies will chip out in similar places since it can be related to weaknesses in the design. So potentially using simple numbers, 1000 dies, each with chips can potentially produce 300,000,000 to 400,000,000 coins. There are more dies used therefore even more coins with chips can be produced from just one Mint.

Take into consideration that for your specific coin, it is possible for there to be several hundred thousand coins just like yours , struck from the very same die since the die will be used until it is completely useless.

This business of die chips and minor die cracks has been written about for ten years in numismatic publications. You can read this and it is when Vicky was working at CW. By the way, the "FIRST STAT" quarter mentioned was mine and I did a Found In Rolls column that included it a very long time ago. As far as die chips, It is something that has been known about since the States quarter program started. The article explains why.

http://www.statequarters.com/Errors.asp

I am not putting down your coin, as I wasn't specific to your coin when I commented on the relationship to sand:-) but the fact is that they are incredibly common and there will be a huge number just like yours out there. If they don't pass through the hands of collectors, they won't all be found, but they surely will be out there.

Thanks,
Bill





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foundinrolls's Avatar
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3507 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2008  01:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

Another note, many years ago a person named Frank Spadone (no longer with us) had a book published on Errors and Varieties. Much of it was based on his philosophy of what he would like to sell. I specifically remember his listing for 1960 and 1960 D nickels that had die chips above many of the letters and the numerals of the date on the coins obverse. He tried to equate the number of chips to a dollar value. The more chips, the more, in his view, the coin was worth.

As numismatists learned over the years that for various reasons, die chips are extremely abundant. Frank's theory of high prices for common coins with multiple die chips began to fade away. Basically and rightly so, that concept has generally been humanely euthanized many years ago.

They are interesting and they are fun but they are indeed common.

Thanks Again,
Bill

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foundinrolls's Avatar
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3507 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2008  01:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi SeattleMD,

"A coin could be struck by a die with one chip, two chips or twenty-three skidoo chips."

Just paying homage to Dr. Seuss:-) (Theodor Geisel)

Have Fun,
Bill
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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2008  04:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again Bill for all the info!

Regarding Mr Spadone- sorry to hear he is deceased.
I had inquired about whether he was still living or not in a prior post.

I have a Franklin half dollar- that's listed in his book " Major Variety and Oddity " Guide to United states coins- by Frank G. Spadone- 8th Edition- MCMLXXXI (1981!)

I don't use this book for price's etc, but it does have lots of pictures and various charts that are helpful in looking up coins.



Here are a few pics of the cover of his book that I still have.


Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. FrankSpadone8theditionErrorBookjpeg1.jpg
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Image: 2008-P-Arizona-Quarter--Something-Different. FrankSpadone8theditionErrorBookjpeg2.jpg
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thingee's Avatar
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 Posted 07/17/2008  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thingee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got one roll of these same mint quarters from the bank. I haven't opened the roll yet but the quarter on one end has the same chips as what's in the origal post. Covered initials and a chip at the bottom part of the banner. I haven't taken the time to closely examine it for anything else. ebay also has some of these listed. So, yeah, they're pretty common.
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chuckster 125's Avatar
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4113 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2008  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi thingee;

ebay has 32 listings right now of the Arizona State Quarters with various Die chip/diebreak errors- and not ONE of them is the one that you and I have with the EXTRA die chip by/under the Banner!

Congratulations- we'll BOTH be able to retire in the lap of luxury very soon (LOL)!

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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2008  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Regarding common as dirt die chips, just look at the BIE "errors" of the Lincoln Cent series. Some designs just have an inherent weak point or two in the design and they will show up in the late die state coins.
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