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Fdoi, First Strike, Limited Edition: What's It All Mean? Does It Matter?

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 Posted 09/26/2018  01:23 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am collecting PCGS Pr69dcam ATB Quarters in year by year 5 coin sets. Some are labeled First Day of Issue, which is self explanatory. Others say First Strike which is defined on the back of the holder as being struck within the first 30 days of issue. One First Strike year is labeled Limited Edition. I have no idea what that means. Finally, some do not say anything at all. To me, they are all exceptionally nice, regardless of appellation.
So, what is the big deal? It is easy to understand in theory that newer dies might tend to give the crispest strikes, but differentiating between day one and day two, or day 30 and everything else really seems to be elevating form over substance. I cannot see that the market much cares because the price differences are inconsequential.
As, for die wear, I collect primarily 19th century classic coins. Die wear of these coins can become noticeable quite rapidly, and is described by terms such as late die state and early die state. Because of rapid die wear, most issues except for the lowest mintages required multiple die replacements giving rise to multiple die varieties of the same date/mint mark issue.
With annual mintages of around 500,000, if modern dies are no more durable than 19th century dies, there would have have to be multiple die replacements to complete an issue, and the FDOI or other appellation would be meaningless. Are modern dies so indestructible that they can kick out a half million proof quality coins? Or does the mint use a whole bunch of dies at the same time, thereby making an early issue appellation much less impressive?
So, why does PCGS bother to call out FDOI and First Strike appellations?
It's got to have something to do with money (for the TPG) by attempting to create new levels of value. Cynical, huh? and is there anything about my Limited Edition coins that makes them in any way special?
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 Posted 09/26/2018  02:04 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So, why does PCGS bother to call out FDOI and First Strike appellations?
It's got to have something to do with money (for the TPG) by attempting to create new levels of value. Cynical, huh? and is there anything about my Limited Edition coins that makes them in any way special?


I think you mostly answered your own question. It's all marketing BS. PCGS creates so many "special" labels it reminds me of the RCM. There was some discussion recently about these designations and, ultimately, nothing was clear. The coins cannot be traced to when they were struck compared to one struck a day later. That is utterly impossible. More importantly, it is completely irrelevant!
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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 Posted 09/26/2018  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First strike indicates that someone had a person standing right there at the Mint watching to see which coins were the first ones struck. Then they grabbed them, ran out the door, went to the grading place and had them noted as First Strike.
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 Posted 09/26/2018  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Others say First Strike which is defined on the back of the holder as being struck within the first 30 days of issue.

That is not correct, it means the Third Party Grading service received the coin within 30 days after the coins were first released by the mint. It has NOTHING to do with when the coin was actually struck.


Quote:
One First Strike year is labeled Limited Edition.

Toward the end of the year the mint issues what they call a "Limited Edtion" proof set It comes in a larger holder with a proof set and I believe a proof silver eagle. The mintage of the set is limited to something like 200K sets. That coin came from one of those sets, and the TPG removed it from the set. The TPG has to remove them from the set to get that designation because the coin is no different that those in the regular sets.


Quote:
Are modern dies so indestructible that they can kick out a half million proof quality coins?

No. Proof dies typically last around 3,000 coins, a really tough one might last 5,000. And yes multiple dies are used at the same time.


Quote:
So, why does PCGS bother to call out FDOI and First Strike appellations?

Because people will pay them extra to put those words on the label. Why? because there are collectors that will buy slabs that have that on the label for higher prices even though the coins are absolutely no different than coins in slabs that DON'T have those words. It is just a marketing gimmick.
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 Posted 09/26/2018  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just Carl: I completely agree with your comments about the absurdity of the whole thing. But what you so facetiously describe is the clear implication of the label.
Conder101: Thanks for your informative explanation
It's all misleading as heck and very disappointing that it happens.
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