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Split Planchets - Showcase And Discussion

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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2021  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nope. Coin 3 was split before the strike, sat on the anvil die, and had a normal planchet sit on top of it.

Look how well struck that obverse rim is, and how subdued those striations are, also there is a weak rim on the split side (in contact with collar die). The obverse shows a nice ghost effect from the obverse die.

This, is a coin from the same era, split after the strike.




"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: https://creativecommons.org/license...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 04/18/2021  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
maybe........lol I am skeptical.
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 Posted 04/20/2021  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks nickelsguy and SPP-Ottawa for your comments.

I think there always a lot of confusion between split after and before strike when a ghost image of the opposite side can be seen.

What I heard is that the split after strike is more scarce, so the comparison between the two versions is more difficult.

If we compare striations between my coin #3 and the split after strike presented by SPP-Ottawa, we see that the striations are smoother. That was my main clue for a split before strike.
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 Posted 04/20/2021  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still skeptical Mike? Here is another coin, split after the strike. And, this one even has a ghost of the Queen, but look at the 3-dimensional nature of the metal.



and the other side


"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: https://creativecommons.org/license...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 04/20/2021  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is another split after the strike, with both pieces. Again, note the 3-dimensional nature of the split surface.


"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: https://creativecommons.org/license...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 04/20/2021  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had that last one mounted in a PCGS Double slab. Both pieces were in a single CCCS soft flip... which boggled my mind. A net grade for two pieces. I think it showcases nicely in this presentation.

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: https://creativecommons.org/license...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 04/20/2021  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here is another split after the strike, with both pieces. Again, note the 3-dimensional nature of the split surface.


Wow!!!! Very nice coins.
Especially the one with the two pieces.

Nice demonstration of split after strike!
No confusion by now.
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 Posted 09/21/2021  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have one like yours Fenian, but also the other half. Wrote about them in a RCNA Journal article.
Nice coin.


Ref:
https://goccf.com/t/330437&whichpage=3#3271036

Zonad,

I read with interest your paper in the RCNA Journal (Nov. 2012, p. 556).

Were you able to confirm by the weight that these split planchets are a matching pair
Edited by SP67
09/21/2021 1:54 pm
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 Posted 09/22/2021  08:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zonad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SP67
I don't remember weighing them, they are in a double PCGS holder now.
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 Posted 09/22/2021  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Zonad:
Thanks for your response. You just need to crack the PGCS Holder.. I'm just kidding.

In fact, I'm asking that question because I heard that Canadian Planchet based on pure nickel cannot split because of the planchet manufacturing process by sintering of pure nickel.

So, I've heard that these low weight 5 cents should be described as "rolled thin planchet and struck through".

At some point that could make sense, but your matching pair "destroy" that description. It's unlikely that two rolled thin planchets with a matching total weight sit together into the striking chamber.

Thanks for sharing additional information. I found very little reference on that subject. Maybe I'm wrong.



Edited by SP67
09/22/2021 11:42 am
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 Posted 03/21/2022  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here my new split planchet.

This is a silver 10 cents 1953 with a really nice clamshell split.

This coin is the sister of the coin presented by robmck1967 in the original post.

My coin is with a really good Mint State condition.





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 Posted 03/22/2022  04:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ROBMACK I congratulate you for this superb TOPIC and also to all who post here.

I will start with the nomenclature of the topic which if we look at the TPG's denomination are wrong. I have nothing against them, but when is come to compare what they say: that use the most advance denomination (scientific) I can say such "idiots" who do just marketing (not the graders, they are passionate for, is the head offices policies).

First on all photos I saw two different main categories, superb. 1. SPLIT which it is also crack planchet and 2. De-lamination. Let start:

SPLIT: In the category of split we have three different subtype and is happened in majority of the time at the end of roll in rolling process.. 1. Split= complete detachments of one part of the coin on vertical fracture of the crystalline structure happened during the strike or during the circulation or manipulation. 2. Crack planchet = partial detachment of the the part of the coin on vertical fracture of the crystalline structure majority are from the age of the coin. 3. Small crack = usually on the borders of the coin complete separation of the material in form of relative tringle milling, strike and aging and manipulation.

DE-lamination: Horizontal structural separation of the material (crystals will be separated due to the effect of the rolling on horizontal direction). Here we have: 1. Foliation = very tinny surface part of the planchet separate partial or total 2. De-lamination = almost separate the planchet in half 3. Ex-foliation = after strike.

Some example from this topic: 1. ROB = Complete split he mistake saying cause of debris. No ROB you have a very clean and super split. 2. SPP = De-laminate before strike. (I will explain how we look in forensic this) 3. SP67 with his lovely denomination Clam Shell. Which it is partial de-lamination occur at the end of the roll and only when the mint cut less then they must cut of the roll. The rolls are 1100 feet long: they cut in general 2.5 feet front and back and trim the borders to avoid those errors. In the case of the coin posted was happened the separation during the milling process. Testimony for is the redeem.

Before or after the strike? : To see if was before or after we look at the structure of the material. The cooper and silver is almost parallelepipedal in structure. So the fracture will have traces almost parallels (like small lines), Cu closer and Ag larger. If the material will detach before strike, the height points of the lines will be more flat and larger. If will be after will be more regular and pointed, (just a small hint)

I will mark this topic and if at one point I will do an complete study and article for, I will use those superb examples from here, with the co-rights of theirs owners.

Market value: Is damage that the market do not appreciate those error at theirs real value. Those errors occur some times and on 1100 feet of roll only 30 could be if the conditions are there.

Hope you enjoy the reading. Not the best English of the word.

Silvio


Edited by silviosi
03/22/2022 04:26 am
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 Posted 03/22/2022  08:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Silviosi for clarification.

Precision with terminology is important. That helps to understand what's happened at the Mint and avoid any confusion.
Sometimes it's quite subtle.
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 Posted 03/22/2022  10:39 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input, but no thanks. I will stick with continuing to use the established nomenclature that was supported and written by expert members of CONECA.

https://www.error-ref.com/part-v-planchet-errors/

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: https://creativecommons.org/license...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 03/22/2022  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks for the input, but no thanks. I will stick with continuing to use the established nomenclature that was supported and written by expert members of CONECA.


Is Mike diamond one of the researches for this site? Can't remember. If anyone know of a Canadian site with such accurate information id love that. All the info I read through the RCNA is great but just having a Canadian error reference site with examples would be awesome. I mean coins and Canada is just wrong with 90% of there error definitions and examples.
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