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1916-S 5c Buffalo Nickel With No Initial Under Date & Large Embedded MM

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Rest in Peace
T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2019  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to your photos of known Genuine examples and your probing into articles of 16-S counterfeit Buffaloes . I'll say your coin is a genuine EF-45 no initial Buff .
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fortcollins's Avatar
United States
3662 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2019  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm definitely rooting for your coin to be genuine! The differences in mm position from your coin to the counterfeit are encouraging.

I wish I had taken better notes. My notes read "first ones grainy, counterfeiter polished dies during minting, later coins better struck, no idea when die cracks appeared." I don't remember any more about what was said about the later strikes being better or die cracks (plural). I'm also not sure about my notes saying "started appearing a couple years ago." That would eliminate a contemporary counterfeit. *shrug* I just can't remember the whole conversation on this one. The die crack on the one you posted from Coin World sure matches what I remember, though. I do remember wondering why on earth anybody would counterfeit a 1916-S.
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numismatic student's Avatar
United States
11898 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2019  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone. It was a learning experience. No sign of the die crack indicating the counterfeit marker. This one came in and I think it looks AU with tons of luster in hand.

1916-S-5c-Buffalo-Nickel-With-No-Initial-Under-Date-&-Large-Embedded-MM
1916-S-5c-Buffalo-Nickel-With-No-Initial-Under-Date-&-Large-Embedded-MM
Edited by numismatic student
09/30/2019 11:40 pm
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fortcollins's Avatar
United States
3662 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2019  01:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@numismatic student, thanks for posting the new photos. Your coin is NOT the counterfeit that was described in Portland. It is also not the cast counterfeit in the article that you mentioned.

I enlarged your photo of the mm. It is the regular blocked serif "S" mm used from 1913 to 1917. There are two markers for this mm. There is a die chip inside the upper curl of the "S" and there is a sharply squared lower serif. Here is the enlarged photo:
1916-S-5c-Buffalo-Nickel-With-No-Initial-Under-Date-&-Large-Embedded-MM

There is a weak die crack from the rim through the second feather on your coin. It does not match the description I heard in Portland of a "big crack 2nd feather to head." Die cracks at the second feather are common throughout the Buffalo series. Here is your die crack:

1916-S-5c-Buffalo-Nickel-With-No-Initial-Under-Date-&-Large-Embedded-MM

On the missing designer's initial, here is a photo of another 1916 Buff (not your coin) showing the location of the initial on the 1916 Buffs:
1916-S-5c-Buffalo-Nickel-With-No-Initial-Under-Date-&-Large-Embedded-MM

Here is your coin, with an arrow pointing to what appears to be the very weak remnant of the designer's initial.
1916-S-5c-Buffalo-Nickel-With-No-Initial-Under-Date-&-Large-Embedded-MM

Here is my best guess on what happened to your coin.

There is evidence of the common die clash and enthusiastic die polishing to eliminate the clash. On the obverse, note the weakness on the chin, throat, and tip of the second feather. The curve of the buffalo's neck and shoulder is still plainly visible to the right of the lower second feather. On the reverse, note the weakness in "RIB" of PLURIBUS, weakness in the buffalo's right rear leg, and the polishing marks at the top of the buffalo's head. These are the common clash locations.

My best guess is that the designer's initial was either mostly obliterated by the crossbar of the first "T" in STATES during the clash or was overpolished in the attempt to eliminate the clash.

Bottom line: your coin appears to be a genuine 1916 Buff. The designer's initial is essentially a goner. You made a good purchase. You have an interesting coin.
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Bruno59's Avatar
United States
2 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2020  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bruno59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it unusual that the indian appears to have no line for the back of his neck? A variety perhaps?
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