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 Replies: 28 / Views: 4,428 |
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
Edited by Prototype
01/10/2020 12:46 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Authentic: Yes. Doubtless that Heritage would have verified it. Enigmatic: Certainly yes; I am doing a bit of my own research, and I will post again.  KM#15. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The volume of a gold 1 ounce maple leaf is only about half of that of a 1 ounce ASW .925 silver coin, (53.7%, in fact). (gold almost twice as dense). With the $15 silver coin having diameter of 40mm and a thickness of 2.75mm and a standard gold maple Leaf having a diameter of 30mm and a thickness of 2.82 mm, the 'error' coin subject of this thread has to be quite thin. I calculate the thickness the gold 'error' coin at 1.28mm. Remember that pure gold is quite malleable, but to get a nice result, the gold planchet must have been pressed several times. I surely hope Heritage can confirm this. I suspect skulduggery by employees within the RCM. Edited by sel_69l
01/10/2020 04:25 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts |
Mike Byers has been trying to sell this coin for 20 years. These coins came out of the coingate scandal, along with a half dozen other error and plain edge coins from 1992.
Edited by JGG
01/10/2020 06:18 am
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Is it possible to deduce the diameter of the 'error' coin from the picture of the slab?
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Valued Member
 United States
80 Posts |
The diameter of the coin is a full 40mm, making it the largest off-metal gold coin ever struck!
Edited by Prototype
01/10/2020 11:01 am
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
According to Mike Byers they first appeared in 2016, with only three known until this fourth example just appeared at the current Heritage sale.
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
This is the certificate that accompanies two of the four known pieces. Due to the document's size, I have split it into two separate images. You can click on each image to enlarge it to a readable size. In the case of this and one other example, the off-metal gold strike was actually encapsulated side by side with its normal strike in silver by NGC. An incredible pairing that, in my opinion, adds a lot of value, and helps to put the gold strike into perspective!   Edited by Prototype
01/10/2020 11:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Just like the Manitoba gold dollar coin, there are probably more than 4 of these, you see them at auction every so often, safe for anyone other than a Canadian to own, these gold off planchets coins are one of the few things the RCM doesn't take kindly towards. Just interesting to see today's selling price, probably around ten grand |
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
Does anyone truly knowledgable about the Canadian off-metal gold strikes have a realistic sense of how many of each type were struck? And, if so, what is the specific basis of your estimate? Also ... A valid point that Mike makes in the certificate is that the world's most valuable coins (1804 dollar, gold Indian cents, ect.) were deliberately "struck to order" for collectors. |
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Can the RCM confirm that the gold 'error' coin in question 'was struck to order', to endow it with some sort of legal status? |
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
When I say "struck to order" I am referring to the coins being made in much the same way as the gold 1900 - 1906 Indian cents, 1913 Liberty Head nickels, 1804 "Class III" dollars, ect. Struck for sale to collectors by someone within the mint, but not officially by the mint itself. It is ironic that these then become some of the world's most iconic and valuable coins! The 1992 "Spirit of the Generations" falls directly into this rarified catagory, in my opinion. It is also a very impressive item to see in person, given its large 40mm size (almost resembling a pure gold medal). |
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
Also, regarding its legal status, I believe that the specific mint employees striking the Manitoba gold coins were caught. That, in-turn, led to a court case pertaining specifically to the Manitoda coins alone, whereas the court did leave the possibility open that the Manitoba coins were fair game for recovery. And that was possibly because the specific individuals making them were caught, thus the government had specific mint employees to connect directly with the Manitoba coins. All this being said ... To my knowledge, nothing of the sort ever occurred with the gold "Spirit of the Generations" coins. And, in-turn, no hint of any potential legal issues ever raised by Canada pertaining to them that I am aware of. Honestly, I can't envision the Canadian government expending their time and resources attempting to recover a coin struck nearly thirty years ago, without any contemporary (1992) associated court case(s). The coins are likely worth $25,000.00 or so down the road, and the RCM would likely spend far more than that in time, manpower, and legal fees fighting for them. Not to mention the negative publicity. To me, they represent a quasi-affordable version of the gold Indian cents or gold Panama-Pacific half dollar. However, they are much more impressive then either of those, given their large size and heavy weight. Edited by Prototype
01/11/2020 5:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The rogue employees were sentenced to a prison term in regards to the Manitoba gold version with a court order that they are RCM property. One was seized by US secert service on behalf of the request of the RCM and RCMP at a US major auction. This coin you never know what ticks the RCM to take action, these had to be made to order but the question is whether it's rogue employees or senior RCM VP requests. Edited by john100
01/11/2020 5:16 pm
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
Again, John, the difference is that the mint employees were "caught in the act" (so to speak) pertaining to the Manitoba coins", and there was a contemporary court case. In-turn, who knows the actual circumstances surrounding the "Spirit of the Generations" coins. Perhaps they were even struck with some "un-official" official help (for Olympic officials, perhaps).  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I can answer this, Olympic coins even error versions has very little demand for what ever reasons but if you like the coin and theme go for it. This probably is Byers coin he has a habit of trying to sell errors at monster prices and after a while dumped them at auction.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 4,428 |
Posted 01/09/2020 11:09 pm
