1834 Do Rm Republic 8 Reales. Riddell #371 CCC

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 3 / Views: 1,797
Augustus49 New Member United States 15 Posts	Posted 01/12/2020 09:29 am A common contemporary circulating counterfeit in my Cap and Rays collection. It is underweight although I am still looking for my old flip for the coin as to how much under. I misplaced it somehow after I submitted it to NGC as a lark. They, bless their hearts, did not send it back as "NOT GENUINE", but as "AUTHENTICITY UNVERIFIABLE". Is the latter NGC's code for CCC? Report this Post to the Staff

swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 01/13/2020 11:51 pm Augustus49 What you have there is the mule of the Riddell # 371 cap die and the Riddell # 365 Eagle die. The Eagle associated with the # 371 has a crest while the eagle associated with the # 365 does not. It is possible to find all 4 mating combinations for these dies 365/365, 365/371, 371/365 and 371/371. Beyond that I am looking into a theory that this family group of counterfeits was produced from hubbed dies. This would confirm Riddell's contention that these coins were fabricated in Europe. Riddell believed these coins were produced by someone capable of "die duplication". Are you aware of the belief that these well made counterfeits were actually made from die hubs prepared by the same company that supplied the original hubs? As the theory goes, Bras-de-Fer ordered sample hubs from a company in France. The makers apparently believed that they would be making new hubs each year. Bras-de-Fer apparently saw it as a one time deal. Who took and vantage of whom is conjectural. However when the contract was not extended, the hub makers either went into the counterfeiting business or sold the master punches to someone who did. Report this Post to the Staff
Augustus49 New Member United States 15 Posts	Posted 01/14/2020 09:22 am Swamperbob: Yes, I was aware of that theory. Use of stolen mint dies or of dies manufactured from the French-made hubs to produce counterfeits is probably the reason Brass-de-Fer and successors at Durango placed "secret" marks on some 8 reales of the era to identify genuine coins. C'est la vie. A closeup of such a secret mark from a coin in my collection is attached. Have you a counterfeit Durango of any date which, nevertheless, also has one of the secret marks? That would be "doubly" counterfeit if such exists. Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 01/14/2020 9:15 pm Augustus49 I have not encountered a counterfeit of the French variety with the "secret" die marks. Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 3 / Views: 1,797

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: World Coins and Currency Forums Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

View Last 100 New Topics

View Last 100 Active Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.19 seconds to rattle this change.