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Can Someone Explain These Terms

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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2020  12:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've seen multiple terms in the forums, things like LMDS obverse or MDS reverse. I've been around for well over 50 years and have never heard of these terms. is there somewhere that defines them?
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Yokozuna's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2020  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I understand it...

It's used to define the Die Stage. The EDS is Early Die Stage, MDS for Middle Die Stage, LDS for Late Die Stage and VLDS Very Late Die Stage. It's the stage when the coin being described was minted in the life on the die or die pair. Most of the time it's used on variety coins so you know when it was struck. Early die state tends to show better or sharper detail.

The different stages may show die chips, scratches, clash marks, etc. that occur during the minting process.



Edit: Added info.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Can-Someone-Explain-These-Terms


Edited by Yokozuna
03/04/2020 1:35 pm
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2020  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That should be early, middle and late die state. Die stage is something different. Die stages are often referred to with roman numerals, but sometimes they are also referred to as early, middle and late if a specific stage it not identified. (That can make it confusing) Unfortunately people tern to use the two terms interchangeably, but they are not the same thing.

Die state refers to the amount a wear the die has received as is a continium from when it is new and sharp until it is heavily worn and ready to be discarded. Technically every coin from a die pair is a different die state, but since these infinitesimal changes can't be identified they are grouped into the broader early, middle and late categories and often whether a coin is early, early/middle, middle, middle /late, late etc can sometimes be a matter of debate.

Die stages are discrete events that occure during the life of a die such as clashes, cracks, chips, breaks or polishings. This makes die stages much more objective. The coin was struck either before or after that discrete event.

Some dies go to pieces quickly. In a case like that you can have a coin that is a late die stage, but and early die state. A good example of this is 1796 S-117. This is a rare variety with around 3 to 45 pieces know, but it comes in 7 different die stages. The die never had a chance to wear.

Conversely it is also possible to have a die pair that never cracks, chips, clashes etc through its entire life. So event hough the die may become heavily worn (late die state), all the coins are from the early die stage.
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Yokozuna's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2020  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Thanks for the correction, Conder101! I was cross thinking!
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Can-Someone-Explain-These-Terms


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 Posted 03/04/2020  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know how you feel. This modern age of using one letter to say something is annoying. Soon enough replies like this will be = I K H Y F.
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