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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,032 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
While TPG's seem to be grading some cleaned coins and overgrading, it seems like they're overly harsh in the low grades. Especially on some types. The sheldon scale is as follows: Poor-1 or P-1 (Poor) - The type is barely discernable, but little else, due to the coin being badly damaged or worn smooth. Fair-2 or FR-2 (Fair) - Type and date are barely discernable, but otherwise the coin is damaged or extremely worn. AG-3 (About Good) - Type and date are discernable, although some spots may be worn out. Some lettering should be apparent, if not necessarily readable. Many, if not the majority of coins I see slabbed 'Fair-2' by PCGS and others I personally would grade AG-3. Some are graded fairly though. Most of the ones graded unfairly have a small area of detail worn out, usually near the rim, or many areas of the design are weak, but still there. Some coins graded 'Poor' seem like they might be 'fair', but generally most of those seem graded more fairly than those with the FR-2, with only a faint outline on one side and a very weak date if any at all. What does everyone else think about this? Edited by coinguybrian
10/29/2008 02:33 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Quote:
What does everyone else think about this? Perhaps they want to disincline slabbing of lower grades because they think it contributes to "brand dilution"--no ugly coins in our slabs!  Then again, any truly rare coin that's accurately an AG3 may be mysteriously graded upward; funny how that works. Yeah, I'm a bit cynical of TPGs  Edited by KurtS
10/29/2008 02:42 am
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Rest in Peace
 United States
5375 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Edited by coinguybrian
10/29/2008 02:49 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2540 Posts |
I agree that they are somewhat harsh on lower grades, but they can also be generous on key dated pieces. At the ANA last year, in Milwaukee, I saw an 1892 O micro O Barber 1/2, that was PCGS G-4. The obverse looked like it had been dropped on cement and stepped on (scratches) and the reverse was a clear AG-3, if not less. So, there are exceptions to every rule. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
ShadowCreator, I see that 1804 25c--looks better than AG3 to me too--good example of undergrading.  For those US series I know about, such as IHCs, I've seen a bit of "market grading" on the rare coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
What I have seen from the TPG's on circulated grades is a lack of authority with those type coins , they do pretty well at times with the BU and Unc's but circulated grades Ugggh . NGC even makes a disclaimer on their website concerning the variation of grades of circulated and cites that a 2 or 3 point spread is not uncommon and could be the result of a lack of authority of certain coins and characteristics of those coins by the " experts " I started a conversation concerning circulated grading in the grading forum , its interesting to see the results and how many things beyond the technical aspects of the devices affect the grade of the coin from different people and grading techniques of the layman . now I have to believe that many of those grading characteristics are a direct result of the TPG's and their influence and written guides which have been presented to the collecting community . is it a good thing or a bad thing ? I personally believe its a bad thing but opinion will vary on that also . |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Wake up, people. You're being fed this crap about how grading standards have changed over time.
Standards don't change. That's why they're called standards.
There are still 8 ounces to a cup, water freezes and boils where it always did, etc. What's changed is their willingness to enforce the standards.
After all, the service that gives the highest possible grade that is reasonably matched by a price is the one that will get the business.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Walkers seem some of the worst. The coins are close to G-4 and being graded 'fair'. I think it would be a good idea for them to hire personnel specifically trained to deal with certain types of coins, or at least a few types of coins. I'd be pretty annoyed to have a AG+ coin sent in for certification mostly to ensure authenticity, hope for a shot at good, and get it back graded FR-2.
Market grading is a big problem though, fred. I went over to the local coin store awhile ago, and saw a boatload of NGC certified morgans. Most of the ones with 'MS-64' were no better than MS-62.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Quote:
I think it would be a good idea for them to hire personnel specifically trained to deal with certain types of coins, or at least a few types of coins. I'll admit to be clueless as to how TPGs actually grade--but at some point during the grading I'll guess a human in involved--so do they simply go by their first impression, or would they consult a reference when [gasp] unsure*? Would consulting a published standard be that time consuming?  As a mere collector, there are a few coin series which I know well--yet I always verify against my references whenever I comment on a grade here--even for IHCs.  Hey you! Fix the grading machine--Heritage has a huge order coming! *please pardon my cynicism of TPGs...I guess it's been building for some time. Edited by KurtS
10/30/2008 2:44 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Anyone who thinks TPGs have a clue need only ask an Early American Copper collector. They have to regrade virtually everything to the correct standards.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
581 Posts |
I hadn't thought too much about TPG's grading AG type coins. But that is something to think about. Sending in what you think is an AG and having it come back FR or PO is almost a kiss of death. While a lot of collectors would buy an AG, many would shun an FR/PO without even looking at it. Of course, not much point in sending in an AG unless it's a really scarce coin - so maybe the PO/FR would still sell..... |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Stuff like the 1901-S Barber quarter in FR still sells. Not sure about other less well known coins. |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,032 |
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Posted 10/29/2008 02:45 am
