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Hong Kong 10 Cents 1867

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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2008  5:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just bought this today, and I want some opinions on the state of this coin. Does this coin appear to have die breaks on both the obverse and reverse?



Image: Hong-Kong-10-Cents-1867 HongKong10Cent1867obv.jpg
30.1 KB



Image: Hong-Kong-10-Cents-1867 HongKong10Cent1867rev.jpg
29.47 KB
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rosso_rubino's Avatar
Italy
244 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  02:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rosso_rubino to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On reverse I don't see die breaks, on obverse it may be over the crown at 12 oclock position.
Can you specifi were you see die breaks ?
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  03:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the obverse, I definitely see a significant break through the IA in VICTORIA across to QU in QUEEN.
There also appear to be a couple from the rim to the shoulder of Victoria.
Harder to tell on the reverse. I'm seeing something through the O in KONG.
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Archraz's Avatar
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3499 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rosso_rubino & KurtS - I think that there is a Cud on the dated side right above the word "Hong," which extends down along the rim to by the word "cents." Also I think there is a Cud on the obverse by Victoria's shoulder with a crack that extends up her shoulder and neck. There also seems to be a Cud in the middle of the coin by the bottom left of the letter "A" of "Victoria". The break seems to extend through the letter "A" and along the top of her crown in an arch-like shape all the way to the "U" of "Queen."

I know that very few people take interest in coins of Hong Kong, but does anyone know if coins of this time period in Hong Kong were known for being plagued with die cracks and other errors? The reason why I ask is that according to Krause, after 1868 production of coins for Hong Kong was assigned to the British Royal Mint. Does this imply that due to the poor quality of coins made in Hong Kong production was shut down there and moved back to England?
Edited by Archraz
11/16/2008 1:00 pm
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you sure it's an authentic coin? Seems to be more of a cast broken.
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Archraz's Avatar
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3499 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
manilagalleontrade- yep, I'm 99.9% sure that it is real since I can tell that it is silver and the edge looks perfect.
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KurtS's Avatar
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5318 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just think that unless one can point out the details suggesting why a coin is counterfeit, the details actually present on the coin should be first order of discussion. Otherwise, a coin is made "guilty unless proved innocent"--just a general observation.

To further the discussion, I went ahead and oversampled the pic, bringing out details on the obverse. Here's a few things I saw:

• That's quite an impressive die crack on the coin, emerging from the rim at "I", circling the coin over to the rim at "U",
and continuing to the 4:00 position.

• I've seen many UK/commonwealth coins with cracks circling the legends. I mostly specialize in Canada and Australia, and have seen numerous examples in just those countries. This might easily be due to how the dies were hardened, resulting in weaknesses that emerged during the stresses of coining. But I'm not an expert on dies, so those who know please correct me.

• Overall, I'm seeing a lot of evidence of extreme die wear which might explain the misshapen letters.
A broken punch may have been used on the R in VICTORIA. Extreme die wear might explain the Cud and raised area along the back of the portrait.
That area would have a sharper edge than the front of the bust and may have been quicker to fail. --Just thoughts here.

• I don't really see any evidence of casting, such as granular surfaces or low-relief details dropping out into the fields.
For instance, look at the neck line and the front of the portrait. But I'm not an expert here--these are just my observations from looking at Canada coins from a similar period.

Hong-Kong-10-Cents-1867
Edited by KurtS
11/16/2008 8:42 pm
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
KurtS- Wow! Awesome analysis. Thanks for your input! I'm glad to hear that it is real as well.
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