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Let's See Some Antoninianii...

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Pillar of the Community
KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow...very nice coins and background history!
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know that I have been hopping around a bit and missing out several emperors at a go but I am just going with it as it comes at the moment.

The coinage of Probus was huge. The production was huge as was the number of varieties. If one were to try and collect all the variations (legend, bust, reverse, mint, officina etc. then one would have to chase after over 30,000 coins and that number is increasing all the time with new varieties turning up all the time.

Perhaps one reason for this was that the armies were large and spread across the whole empire and the times were relatively peaceful. This meant that the troops didn't have the booty and plunder that they were used to from battle. They still had to be paid but they were becoming restless. In the end they became unruly and killed Probus after Carus had declared himself emperor and the troops that Probus sent to suppress this uprising joined Carus. All this happened around September A.D. 282.

This led to Carus becoming emperor and setting his two sons as Caesars. Carus gave control of the western parts of the empire to Carinus who was promoted to join Augustus (Spring A.D. 282) by his father while he took Numerian to take charge of affairs in the east.

Carus is said to have died in his tent in camp, having been struck by lightening in July or August A.D. 283 and Numerian was declared Augustus.

Carus
Obv:- IMP C M AVR CARVS AVG, Radiate, helmeted, cuirassed bust right
Rev:- VICTORIA AVGG, Victory, standing left on globe, holding wreath, two captives beneath
Minted in Lugdunum (A in left field) Emission 4 Officina 1. 1st quarter A.D. 283
Reference:- Cohen 100. Bastien 474 (11 examples cited), RIC 24 var (Not listed with this bust type in RIC)

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Magnia Urbica (wife of Carus, mother of Carinus and Numerian)

Obv:- MAGNIA VRBICA AVG, Draped bust right on crescent, hair brushed in straight lines, plait carried up the back to top of head and running under stephane
Rev:- VENVS GENETRIX, Venus standing facing, head left, apple upward in right hand, vertical scepter in left
Minted in Lugdunum (A in left field).
RIC V pt. 2, 337 var (not listed from this officina). Bastien -, Bastien Supplement -, Bastien Supplement II 613alpha; (2 examples cited)

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Numerian as Caesar

Obv:- M AVR NVMERIANVS NOB C, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:- MARS VICTOR, Mars walking right holding trophy and spear
Minted in Lugdunum (C in right field) Emission 4 Officina 3. 1st Quarter A.D. 283
References:- Cohen 18. RIC V part 2 353 Bust Type C. Bastien 519 (28 examples)

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Numerian as Augustus

Obv:- IMP C NVMERIANVS AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right, holding sceptre over left shoulder
Rev:- FELICITAS AVGG, Felicitas standing left, holding caduceus, leaning on column
Minted in Lugdunum (B | _) Emission 8 Officina 2. 1st quarter A.D. 284
Ref:- Cohen -. Bastien 588 (3 examples cited). RIC 384 var (Not listed with this bust type in RIC)

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Carinus as Caesar

Obv:- CARINVS NOBIL CAES, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:- PRINCIPI IVVENTVT, Prince standing left holding globe and inverted spear
Minted in Lugdunum (Retrograde C in left field). Emission 4, Officina 3. 1st Quarter A.D. 283
Reference:- Cohen 92. Bastien 516 (9 examples cited). RIC 150 Bust type C

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Carinus as Augustus

Obv:- IMP C M AVR CARINVS AVG, Radiate, bust right in imperial mantle
Rev:- SALVS AVGG, Salus standing right, feeding snake
Minted in Lugdunum (_|D / LVG), Emission 7, Officina 4. early A.D. 284
Reference:- RIC 216 var (not listed with this bust type in RIC). Cohen -. Bastien 574 (1 example cited)

This extremely rare coin would appear to be only the second example if this bust type for Carinus known to exist.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...
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Sir Ferrari's Avatar
United States
671 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sir Ferrari to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been looking for a good helmeted bust coin of Probus for a long time...
They just seem to be too expensive and/or in bad condition when they are on ebay.
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VCoins has many on there at the moment. It very much depends on the mint, reverse type and quality you are after. There are some helmeted Probus coins graded at about EF from the Rome mint in the $40 - $70 range. If you wanted Lugdunum as in my example below then such an example could cost you hundreds of dollars as they are much scarcer from Lugdunum than they are from Rome. Is there anything in particular you are looking for?

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...
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Sir Ferrari's Avatar
United States
671 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sir Ferrari to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't really care about mints, just after the helmeted w/spear bust. I'll check out this "Vcoins" and see if they have what I'm looking for.
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  4:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
www.vcoins.com is a combined virtual coin store with many worldwide dealers ranging from large to small. It has a search facility across all the stores and if you enter "Probus helmet" with "All keywords" ticked then you should be presented with about 60 or so coins matching these criteria.
Regards,
Martin
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Sir Ferrari's Avatar
United States
671 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sir Ferrari to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that's an amazing site, thanks for the link.
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2009  07:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After the short lived dynasty of Carus and his family came the Diocletian who quickly formed the first Tetrarchy.

The Antoninianus is still the main currency and remains the silvered bronze coin identified by the radiate crown.

The range of busts used at this time is not as great as it was during the reign of Probus though there is still quite a decent variety.

Heading this Tetrarchy as Augusti are Diocletian and Maximianus Herculius.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

With Galerius and Constantius Chlorus as their appointed Caesars.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

In A.D. 294 Diocletian undertook a major reform of the coinage and with this we see the last use of the Antoninianus.

The following coin is from the last issue of these coins produced in Lugdunum during A.D. 294.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

The coinage reform introduced the Follis and the radiate crown continues in limited used on what we know as a radiate fraction and occasionally on some later coins from the dynasty of Constantine.

I have skipped over many reigns during this brief history of the Antoninianus and I am sure that there and many examples that could be posted to fill in some of these gaps. I know that I could fill in many of them.

Regards,
Martin
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2009  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll keep this topic alive with some of my better purchases.

Probus Antoninianus
Obv:- IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate bust left wearing imperial mantle, holding Victory on globe in right hand
Rev:- VIRTVS AVG, Soldier standing left, holding Victory and spear, left hand on shield.
Minted in Lugdunum (//IIII) Emission 5 Officina 4. End A.D. 277 to start A.D. 278 (Bastien)
Reference(s) - Cohen 821. Bastien 258 (7 examples cited). RIC 111 var (Not listed with this bust type in RIC).

This is a scarcer bust type as are most of the coins from the 5th emission. I only have one other example of this bust type in my collection and it isn't as nice as this one.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Regards,
Martin
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nuggethill's Avatar
Australia
1015 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2009  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nuggethill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Love your Probvs Martin the full silvered Antoninanus's look great and are hard to find in that condition so good on ya mate also I was going to show mine but these put mine to shame
regards Harry
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atlashealth's Avatar
United States
1691 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2009  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atlashealth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the crash course in ancients...you are a great contributor to the FORUM!
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2009  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I missed out so many emperors on my run through the life of the Antoninianus. I thought it might be worth going back through some of the ones I missed out...

Ants of Gordian III abound and they are very affordable and provide a great starting point to Roman coin collecting.

There is production from Roma and Antioch. Gordian also produced the last of the denarii.

There is a huge variety of reverse types and can provide sufficient collecting interest to keep a collector going for quite a while.

Obv:- IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:- VIRTVTI AVGVSTI, Hercules standing front, head right, holding club on rock and lion skin
Minted in Rome
Reference:- RIC 95, RSC 404
Weight 4.37 gms. Dimensions 21.77mm

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Obv:- IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right seen from the rear
Rev:- FORTVNA REDVX, Fortuna seated left holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Antioch. A.D. 242 - 244
Reference:- RIC 210, RSC 98a
Weight 3.88 gms. Dimensions 21.51mm

With the distinctive style being a great differentiator between the output of the two mints.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Regards,
Martin
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2009  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And the ladies are well represented too. They start with Julia Domna when they are much scarcer that the denarii through to times when they are the norm.

Here we have an Otacilia Severa Antoninianus
Obv:- M OTACIL SEVERA AVG, Diademed draped bust right on crescent
Rev:- SPES FELICITAS ORBIS, CONCORDIA AVG, Concordia seated facing left, holding a patera and a cornucopiae
Minted in Rome.
Reference:- RIC 126. RSC 17

Note that the Radiate crown (Radiate as in Sol i.e. the Sun) is replaced with the bust sitting on a Crescent (Moon). Which acts a a denomination mark for the Ants of the ladies.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Regards,
Martin
Pillar of the Community
maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2009  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You didn't have to be Emperor or Empress either. The coins were also minted in the names of their heirs.

Phillip II Antoninianus
Obv:- M IVL PHILIPPVS CAES, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:- PRINCIPI IVVENT, Philip II standing left, holding globe and inverted spear
Minted in Rome.
Reference:- RIC 218d. RSC 88

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

We can also see when the Caesar became Augustus and this helps us with the chronology of the coins.

Phillip II Antoninianus
Obv:- IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:- AETERNIT IMPER, Sol advancing left, raising right hand and holding whip
Minted in Rome.
Reference:- RIC 226. RSC 6.

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

Regards,
Martin
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maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2009  04:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another coin to try and keep the thread going.
On the face of it, it is not a special coin but it is special to me.

Obv:- IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG, Radiate draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:- FIDES MILITVM, Fides standing left, holding standard in each hand
Minted in Lugdunum (//III) Emission 6, Officina 3. A.D. 278 - 279 (Bastien)
References:- Cohen 257. Bastien 276 (7 examples cited). RIC 78 var Bust type C (Not listed with this bust type in RIC)

Let's-See-Some-Antoninianii...

The coins with the longer "P F AVG" legend from this issue seem scarcer that their equivalents with the shorter legends.

This coin is in quite good condition, probably gVF or maybe even aEF for wear (though I find grading hard to do with ancients). The coin is nearly completely silvered though the silvering has been lost on the highest points exposing the bronze beneath, quite possibly as a result of the cleaning process. It is struck on a good sized but slightly oval flan resulting in some legend loss. There is some flatness on the head of Fides, not through wear but lost during the strike due to lack of metal.

Regards,
Martin
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