Please Help On Authenticity Of 1810 8 Reales

@swamperbob Thank you for such a detailed reply! I can see the overlap in the second edge photo, but if that's the case, shouldn't I also see evidence of another overlap on the opposite edge of the coin? I believe that would be around the P and A of HISPAN, visible in the third edge photo.

Additionally, from my understanding, the clockwise swastika saw fairly widespread use across China and East Asia, most commonly used as a Buddhist symbol. However, you've said that a clockwise swastika is not often seen on genuine 8 Reales. Is there a reason why it's seen more often on contemporary counterfeits than genuine coins given that both were circulated around Asia?

I'll try to do an SG test, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get or borrow an XRF analyzer soon. Again, thanks for your response.

@jbuck Thanks!

I will state at the outset that I do not know for an absolute certainty that the right facing swastika was NEVER used as a chop mark, but I know for a fact that when I see it there is a far greater than average chance that the coin will test bad (no Gold).

One thing to note on this particular coin is the swastika is also tiled to the right just like the Nazi symbol and it would fit very well with the date of the original adoption of the symbol in Germany as an Aryan nationalist sign after it was found by Heinrich Schliemann at Troy in 1868. The counterfeits I am most concerned with identifying were made after about 1880 on the east coast of the US and several members of the one forgery ring that I spoke with personally were of German heritage.

So why do I believe that this symbol can be used to spot likely US made fakes?

This belief comes from XRF tests I have done after I confirmed that gold is a normal and expected contaminant of Mexican silver simply because there was no way to remove all the gold in the ore using the technology available in Mexico. The US technology which made 99.999 fine silver possible was not invented until the 1880s. It was not used in Mexico until the 8 Reales series was no longer minted.

The right facing (clockwise) swastikas that appear on Silver Reproductions of the 8R intended for China were created for the Chinese market but the makers were unaware that the symbol they were adding was very rarely (if ever) seen on original coins chopmarked by the Schroffs in China ca 1820.

The three leg version of swastika is the symbol normally seen not the 4 leg version.

I say this because the coins with the three leg symbol will usually show gold in XRF tests by a very wide margin. The 4 leg right facing swastikas normally test no Gold present also by a very wide margin. My conclusion is that the Right facing swastika was an error that predominantly appears on silver forgeries made in the US after 1890.

That is why the XRF test is such a valuable tool to identify US made restrikes (silver counterfeits). The swastika is only a first visual clue which then must be confirmed by XRF.

As to the surface parallel cracks - these are very commonly seen on both genuine 8R and by the US made silver counterfeits made after 1890 for the China trade. The cracks do give a false sense of age, but they can be attributed to a shortcut taken by one large group of US manufacturers such as the one my uncle belonged to. His group - to save time and effort - first of all did not laminate the silver strips after they were rolled. The Mexico City mint did laminate their silver strips before blanking. The ring operating in Massachusetts also stamped blanks out of a narrower silver strip than was originally used in Mexico. This took less time to roll saving time but it also meant that quite often the blank cuts into one or both edge tapers on the individual strip. Most of the cracking actually occurs in these tapered areas for whatever reason.

I use the presence of a two sided taper as another preliminary indicator that the coin may be a silver counterfeit (also needs confirmation with XRF).

The key element here is that I am not referring to contemporary counterfeiting but to a very late in time operation that was still making these coins 120 years later to attempt to fool the Chinese into paying up to 25% over silver value for what they thought were original "Buddha head Dollars".

I distinguish this type as Contemporary Circulating Silver Counterfeits because they contain the correct (or nearly correct weight and alloy) and they were made while the 8 Reales was still used in circulation in China even though they were produced between 80 and 120 years after the last Carolus IIII 8R was struck in Mexico City.