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1858 Small Letters Flying Eagle Cent - Can You Identify The Variety?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 2,138Next Topic  
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RedRaider's Avatar
United States
1018 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  2:24 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add RedRaider to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have my own opinions that I will share soon, but I would like to know what yours are here. What variety is this? Bonus points....what grade do you give this? Thanks!

1858-Small-Letters-Flying-Eagle-Cent---Can-You-Identify-The-Variety?
1858-Small-Letters-Flying-Eagle-Cent---Can-You-Identify-The-Variety?
Edited by RedRaider
08/22/2022 2:30 pm
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nfine's Avatar
United States
3468 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nfine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My WAG on grade is PR63-64. No clue on the variety.
Bedrock of the Community
JimmyD's Avatar
Canada
21593 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent pictures.
I know the reverse is the High Leaf variety.
If there is a variety on the obverse, I will leave
that to someone more experienced.


Correct typo
Edited by JimmyD
08/22/2022 6:21 pm
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
United States
5887 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a beauty of a coin.

To me it looks like an 1858 Small Letters proof, high leaves, PR1 REV. T1-A (late die state of PR1, polished leaf).

I'm not very well versed in the proof FEC's just yet but I feel that's a pretty good stab at it.

Gorgeous coin, do you own it? I put it at PR65+. Such an amazing color and incredible fields from the images provided. Some light scratches in the field on the obverse that I think would hold it from a 66.

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
Edited by CoinHunter27
08/22/2022 10:13 pm
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RedRaider's Avatar
United States
1018 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2022  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RedRaider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone, Ill plan on revealing the grade late tonight or in the AM just in case anyone else wants to chime in. It is a proof though! The coin is not mine yet, but the check should be deposited today or tomorrow and it will be in my possession very soon.

CH27, do you know if these dies were ever used to strike MS examples?
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
United States
5887 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2022  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As far as I know, this is exclusively a proof die. I referenced my 2001 edition of the Flying Eagle cent attribution guide so the data may not be as accurate now, but that book states that this is struck as a proof. If you have the current guide then you may want to check that.

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
United States
5887 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do we have a reveal on this one?

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
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RedRaider's Avatar
United States
1018 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RedRaider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi sorry.....Was traveling for work and kinda forgot about this!

PCGS PR64+ with a CAC sticker. I think it looks better than the PR65 CAC that sold last nigh on Heritage for $26K!
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RedRaider's Avatar
United States
1018 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2022  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RedRaider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So.....I have this coin as well. It was delivered this week and to be honest, looks fully Prooflike (maybe a proof?!). I'm tempted to send it off for a crossover to PCGS.

By the way....most of the dark spots in these pics are strike thoughs. The coin is stunning, and CAC certified as an MS65+.

All of the diagnostics are there for the PR-1 Small Letter High Leaf variety, what do you think?

1858-Small-Letters-Flying-Eagle-Cent---Can-You-Identify-The-Variety?
1858-Small-Letters-Flying-Eagle-Cent---Can-You-Identify-The-Variety?
Edited by RedRaider
09/07/2022 4:04 pm
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
United States
5887 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2022  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's really a beauty and so few out there. I agree it looks like PR1 REV T1-A. IMO, it's a proof. It's also got (as you mentioned) the markers listed in the guide, including that doubled S of STATES and polished high leaf which is standout to me.

I'm an advocate for crossing to PCGS, however that would unfortunately be at the cost of losing the CAC sticker. You could always resubmit it to CAC but no guarantee you'll get another sticker. Not sure if the sticker is worth the gamble to you if you get a PF designation instead of an MS. It probably would be to me to have a proof designation over a CAC sticker. I'm guessing you already know all of this.

Another thing with the cross is that PCGS won't attribute this variety. You'll need to submit it to Rick Snow for photo sealing and he can attribute the variety and include a sticker on the label listing the variety. I'm sure you already know this as well given your history with pieces like this and with Rick.

Overall, I vote for crossing to PCGS and then sending into Rick Snow for sealing and variety attribution. I think this has a great chance to cross at PF65+ and come back from Rick attributed as the high leaf PF variety.

I'm always happy to see some love being given to such an awesome series of coins, especially when the examples you have been sharing have been exceptional pieces. Love them! Again, this is a real beauty!

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
Edited by CoinHunter27
09/07/2022 9:33 pm
Pillar of the Community
RedRaider's Avatar
United States
1018 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2022  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RedRaider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks CH27,
There are more markers that I did not mention.....but you got them! :).
- Half polished area in the reverse bow.
- Denticles on the reverse at 9 o'clock are thinner than the rest of the reverse.

I bought this last week at Heritage and the description even said "prooflike".

This is a phenomenal coin regardless of MS or PF. The rainbow tone around the edge is truly on a PF like surface, IMO, it is proof, I just was hoping to get some comforting confirmation here.

I have an order out to mail this to PCGS with explicit instructions only to cross it if it grades PROOF (any grade). If it doesn't, I want it back in the MS65+ NGC CAC holder it is in currently. I also have other coins to send to Rick Sno. for Photoseal, so debating as to send it to him first.
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
United States
5887 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2022  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds great! If you would kindly update this thread as it moves along through grading and to Rick I would love to see how it turns out. I agree, phenomenal addition whether it grades PF or MS. I've got a good feeling it will be PF.

I'm rooting for you! Again, seriously amazing coin and so rare. Very few collectors ever get the chance to own such a beautiful and rare piece.

I wonder if sending it to Rick Snow first and getting a written confirmation/opinion of his agreement with a PF designation will help sway PCGS in the same direction?

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
Edited by CoinHunter27
09/07/2022 11:29 pm
New Member
France
9 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2022  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add globetrotter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is my documentation of the coin in discussion here.
1858-Small-Letters-Flying-Eagle-Cent---Can-You-Identify-The-Variety?
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