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Grading Theory-Morgan Dollars

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Pillar of the Community

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 Posted 09/08/2022  10:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey folks,

I heard something on Youtube today that I didn't know was a thing, but apparently it is.

I'm always trying to improve my grading skills, so I had to click this PCGS & NGC crack out video.

Youtube Channel is: Treasure Town- part in question can be heard from about 10:30.

The coin is a 1878-P Morgan dollar.

I will quote what the professional numismatist stated and let me know your opinion.

"The issue with this coin, is that it was scrubbed by someone, pretty severely.

So, I guess it could come back cleaned, but considering it's a DMPL, I'm think they would try and grade it numerically"

He guesses the grade would get a 63 DMPL, and it came back a 65 PL, straight grade.

To me the coin looks to have been wiped or something. Way too many hairlines in a bunch of different angles.

TPG's give leeway because it is a PL or DMPL and numerically grade something that is clearly a problem coin?

I didn't know this was a thing.

Let me know what you think folks, thanks!
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Edited by NumismaticsFTW
09/09/2022 04:38 am
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PlumCrazy814's Avatar
United States
883 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2022  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PlumCrazy814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am often bewildered by Morgan grading - sorry I can't be of help
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jacrispies's Avatar
United States
3848 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2022  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I watched the portion of the video that features the Morgan dollar. He starts off, after being asked if it the coin is a proof, with "chances are it's not a proof". This response tells me that he is unable to recognize a proof morgan from diagnostics, and overall not a professional in the realm of Morgan dollars (perhaps I am being too critical). From looking at his website, it seems as if he only deals in severely toned coins.

He is right in saying that there are a lot of hairlines, but I believe he is wrong in saying it was scrubbed severely. A PL coin really makes minor hairlines look vivid and dramatic. The mirrors appear very original on this particular coin. If the coin was scrubbed severely then those mirrors would not appear as glass-flat.

I am not defending NGC nor opposing the opinion of the "expert" but merely describing my observations.
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2281 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2022  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah I didn't dive into who he was, figured since he was featured he was a PN. Now I see he's an Instagram guy, yikes! Regarding his opinion if it were a proof, I genuinely get the feeling he was being nice.The field looks sketchy to me. Although, I do believe I see die polish lines included in the mix.

I know they tend to show every contact mark, this one has a good amount of them. I'm not saying what he states is a fact, that's why I'm asking.I don't think it's severely cleaned either.

I'm wondering rather if this nuance is true to dmpl and pl coins, regardless of the coin in question.

Where are our resident graders?

They should chime in too!
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Edited by NumismaticsFTW
09/09/2022 12:17 am
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18657 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2022  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
where's the link? there are quite a few vids on this site and I cant figure out which one you are referring to.
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eaglebub7's Avatar
United States
378 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2022  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eaglebub7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
where's the link?

Took a few to find but I believe it is this one.
6m8130nD10o
Pillar of the Community
United States
2281 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2022  01:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks eaglebub

I forgot to mention the video title and give a link.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18657 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2022  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this guy does not know what he's talking about. this coin was not cleaned harshly. the surfaces are very typical for a PL coin. the 65 grade is correct
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eaglebub7's Avatar
United States
378 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2022  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eaglebub7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks eaglebub

You're welcome FTW
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36738 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2022  12:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've watched many of his vid's. I think he is still learning and not at the expert level yet.
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jacrispies's Avatar
United States
3848 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2022  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, I find the vast majority of coin channels on Youtube are elementary. Either they are always focused on prices of metals, or they buy coins that they don't know much about. Not too many specialists, and they would be the most interesting to learn from.
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2281 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2022  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jacrispies- I agree, it's unfortunate that's how it is on Youtube.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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