Strike Affect On Grade - What's Your Opinion

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 1,119
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18645 Posts	Posted 09/16/2022 1:06 pm this is a subject that has been haunting me for a while and a few comments were made in some threads but no general discussion the thing that always stuck in my mind is that MS stands for Mint State and every grade really is a reflection on how a coin left the mint. you could literally change the current grading system and replace AG,G,F,VF,XF,AU with the prefix MS. so a coin that graded say VF35 is actually MS35 reflecting what state the coin is in currently as opposed to when it left the mint. if this is the case then should a coin only be assessed on how it came from the mint which would mean that strike should not have any impact on grade. how do TPG's take that into account or do they? do they ignore it in some series and not others and why? imo I would think that more consistency would make grading a lot easier if a coin was just graded on how it left the mint what's your opinion? Report this Post to the Staff

nick10 Pillar of the Community United States 3207 Posts	Posted 09/16/2022 3:26 pm Rather than change the grading system, for some designs a coin's other attributes are evaluated as a proxy for strike quality. Common ones are full bell lines, full steps, full bands, etc. Those measurements are imperfect to the extent there exist many eye appealing coins that lack a full-whatever, but such yardsticks are better than nothing IMO. Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7935 Posts	Posted 09/17/2022 08:52 am If I understand your proposal correctly, I disagree. HOWEVER ... I collect mostly older world coins not made by modern manufacturing methods, and have been amused by some of the grades given to older coins by the TPGs (related to strike quality and/or planchet quality). Here is small study in grades assigned by NGC to a 17th century Polish type. First an MS64, a stunning example for this type which was often made with defective planchets, uneven strikes, etc: © Gabinet Numizmatyczny Damian Marciniak But wait! That's not the top graded example of this type. There are also some at MS65, like this one: © Gabinet Numizmatyczny Damian Marciniak No, I did not switch the photos . But at least that one is obviously much better than this MS62: © Antykwariat Michal Niemczyk So, my suggestion for modifying the grading system is to give coins from before the milled technology period a "technical" and a "realistic" grade. If the first one is MS64, and the grader insists that the second one has even less wear, it could be graded MS65/40. And in a system like this, the third one might come out MS62/15. Because, as this small example shows, applying the current grading system as-is gives utter nonsense. Edited by tdziemia 09/17/2022 09:00 am Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18645 Posts	Posted 09/17/2022 09:46 am tdziemia i think you make my case here if I understand your comments where the TPG that graded your coins did, in fact, ignore strike and graded the coin without concern to that. it was not my intent to change the grading system. I was just making a point to the effect that all coins are a reflection of the amount of wear from how the coin left the mint. TPG's seem to take strike into consideration for some series and do not lower the grade and others they actually lower the grade of a coin when its actually from weak strike. this especially occurs in circulated coins. maybe its not understanding or their ability to discern the difference in strike vs wear for certain series. my question was ,and maybe I did not convey that clearly, should strike be eliminated from grading as this is how the coin left the mint and the grade is actually a representation of the original coin? I would just want them to be consistent and by eliminating it it would close the door on ambiguity that occurs in grading regarding strike and would add an amount of stability to grading coins. by doing this though all graders would have to understand the series they are grading regarding strike and how the coin actually left the mint. bottom line is, you either take into consideration strike or you dont in assigning a grade and I dont think that is consistent today. it seems to me that a strong strike for MS coins adds to the grade but not for circulated examples of the same coin or just the opposite where say you have a New Orleans minted dollar in a year that we know had strike issues and TPG does not take into consideration and knocks the grade for it. Report this Post to the Staff
MisterT Pillar of the Community United States 2003 Posts	Posted 09/17/2022 10:36 am I suppose the strength of strike differs with series. A strong well detailed strike on say bust coinage may be far rarer than that on a Morgan dollar. In general theory however the surface preservation of a coin generally accounts for 40% of the grade. Luster accounts for another 20%, Strike accounts for 20% and overall eye appeal accounts for the remaining 20%.. At least this is my understanding. Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7935 Posts	Posted 09/18/2022 06:51 am panzaldi, my thought was actually the opposite. By giving all three of those coins an MS designation, NGC was saying they all left the mint more-or-less in those states, so those represent the as-struck condition. To me and the way I collect, it feels like the system has broken down when coins with such poor eye appeal get a grade which most of us would expect to go with a pretty attractive coin. Yes, I understand that a too-thin planchet or horribly worn dies can give this result, but when an MS65 coin looks a half dozen grades lower than an MS64, it seems like there is an opportunity for improvement. Report this Post to the Staff
jacrispies Pillar of the Community United States 3848 Posts	Posted 09/18/2022 10:43 am Quote: it feels like the system has broken down when coins with such poor eye appeal get a grade which most of us would expect to go with a pretty attractive coin I understand what you are trying to convey. I personally think it is the duty of the collector to look for eye appeal, and not buying a coin solely on what a TPG label says. If TPGs account for eye appeal, then there are many more inconsistencies as opposed to grading a coin on how it left the mint because a lot more opinion is involved in the process. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955 Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18645 Posts	Posted 09/18/2022 10:45 am tdziemia. Quote: By giving all three of those coins an MS designation, NGC was saying they all left the mint more-or-less in those states, so those represent the as-struck condition. right! that's my question. should TPG's be more consistent by taking into consideration that that's they way it left the mint or should they grade a coin taking strike issues into consideration regardless if the coin is MS or circulated? whichever the decision I would want it consistent across all series and imo since the coin left the mint that way it should not impact the grade in all cases not just if the coin is MS or whatever the series Report this Post to the Staff
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