Morgan Counterfeit? - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,526
gbb357 New Member United States 12 Posts	Posted 03/26/2006 8:00 pm I recently purchased an 1880-S Proof-like Morgan dollar off of ebay. When I removed it from the envelope to look at it, it look different to me right off the bat. But I have never seen a real proof-like Morgan. Being suspicious, I decided to scan it a 1200 DPI to get a close look at it. First thing I noticed was that is it has absolutely flat stars with no peak to them like my other Morgan's. Also notice the areas around stars and date. It doesn't look like doubled die markings, it looks very flat. Also cheek looks flat not rounder like others and the mouth does not have that little notch at the bottom of the lip. I wade the coin on my postal scales (only ones I have). It wade the same as my other ones at 1 oz. I know many of you are very qualified to give me an answer and would very much appreciate it. I hope it is not but would really like to know for sure. Thanks! Obverse Reverse Report this Post to the Staff

Morgan Fred Rest in Peace United States 2684 Posts	Posted 03/26/2006 11:22 pm First, gbb, welcome to the forum! We're a friendly group and try to help whenever possible. I'm no counterfeit Morgan expert, but if your 1880-S is a counterfeit, it's a good one. Most counterfeits of which I'm aware are castings. This one doesn't have the characteristic "graininess" of castings that I can detect. I have a counterfeit Morgan which would illustrate this, but I have not yet mastered my brand new digital camera, so I can't upload anything. However, a few threads ago, another 1880-S was discussed: 1880-S obverse I don't see the differences to which you refer between the two images beyond what might explained by the vagaries of imagery. Of course, it's always difficult to do analysis from an image, so what we see may not represent the actual appearance of the Morgan. In comparison with my own Morgan reference collection, I also don't see the differences, but again, comparing one in hand with an image is very difficult. Does your Morgan have any luster? Usually, counterfeits have none. If there is some way you can get a photo of its luster then upload it, it might help us a little better. Weight-wise, you'd need something more sensitive than postal scales; I use powder scales which gets the weight down to a tenth of a grain. An uncirculated Morgan should weigh about 412.5 grains; the counterfeit I have weighs 380 grains while a well-circulated (about G-06) 1879-CC Morgan weighs 398.2 grains, differences which could not be detected on a postal scale nor felt in the hands. Of course, it can always be submitted to ANACS for authentication only. Let's see if we can narrow this down for you. Edited by Morgan Fred 03/26/2006 11:32 pm Report this Post to the Staff
gbb357 New Member United States 12 Posts	Posted 03/27/2006 1:31 pm Thanks for your quick responce. The luster looks a little diiferent almost like looking in a mirror. I took 4 different images with my digital camera, 2 with flash and 2 with out. I will let you be the judge. Thanks again! Obverse Reverse Obverse Reverse Report this Post to the Staff
Bryan1315 Bedrock of the Community United States 14454 Posts	Posted 03/27/2006 1:59 pm I am a morgan collector and I have to tell ya if its a fake its a dern gooden, I have never personally seen a counterfit but if they look that good I need to study up on it. When I saw the first pictures I said "NO WAY!" but then I went back and looked at the second pictures with the flash on and now I am kind of on the fence. Hope someone else comes in on this and helps you out because like I said at first, if its a copy its a gooden Edited by Bryan1315 03/27/2006 2:06 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Morgan Fred Rest in Peace United States 2684 Posts	Posted 03/27/2006 2:11 pm I concur with Bryan: if it's a counterfeit, it's a good one. As to whether or not it has proof-like qualities, I'd rather not commit myself from an image. Nice pics, by the way. When I get myself more fully trained with my new Canon S2 IS, I'll upload images of my counterfeit Morgan and the differences will be obvious. Report this Post to the Staff
Bryan1315 Bedrock of the Community United States 14454 Posts	Posted 03/27/2006 2:39 pm I snapped a few pictures of my 1880-S morgan that graded by NGC as MS-64PL. Maybe it will help you Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 03/27/2006 4:05 pm Welcome! You've come to the right place to find some Morgan fanatics. Here's an 1880S formerly in my collection, of a similar size to your original scan. Warning, 2Mb file. Don't click without either broadband or patience!: http://files.photojerk.com/wipped/1880S_Obv802.jpg I would say your coin is genuine. I have similarly huge scans of two different 1880S's, and they both display the same characteristics as yours. Edited by SsuperDdave 03/27/2006 4:06 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Morgan Fred Rest in Peace United States 2684 Posts	Posted 03/27/2006 9:22 pm SuperDave, we need to talk about jpeg compression utilities. Report this Post to the Staff
scoutjim99 Pillar of the Community United States 4589 Posts	Posted 03/29/2006 10:54 pm I hate to sound like an ECHO but I agree with everyone else. And if it is a fake I need to have you all look at mine Report this Post to the Staff
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