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An 1875 Indian Cent With Some Interesting History Attached .

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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 07/30/2024  10:43 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
One of my more recent counterstamp acquisitions appears below. The tiny legend reads: GEO. KAY / ESOPUS / N.YORK. Esopus is a small town, along the Hudson River. The town's name is a Dutch word that translates to a brook or small river.
An-1875-Indian-Cent-With-Some-Interesting-History-Attached-.
An-1875-Indian-Cent-With-Some-Interesting-History-Attached-.
An-1875-Indian-Cent-With-Some-Interesting-History-Attached-.

Having seen counterstamps having similar "tiny" (less than 1mm) font size and "layered or stacked words" style, I guessed that Kay was a cutler. Within a minute or two online, my guess proved to be correct. Further study revealed that George is believed to have emigrated to the USA from Sheffield, England, circa 1860. Note that Sheffield is famous for its cutlery. George apparently chose to settle in Esopus, near Black creek, as there was ample waterpower thereabouts for his planned cutlery factory.

George commenced his operation at the outbreak of the Civil War, and quickly prospered. Pictured below is one of George's cutlery creations, believed to be the first of its kInd - a knife, fork and spoon combo. Note George's stamp on the tang of the knife blade in the second pic.
An-1875-Indian-Cent-With-Some-Interesting-History-Attached-.
An-1875-Indian-Cent-With-Some-Interesting-History-Attached-.

George and brother, Joseph, secured a patent for a spring-loaded pocket knife in 1868. According to an 1879 news notice, George's business was still fully operational.

This counterstamp is but one of hundreds of "discovery" pieces (unlisted) that I've been able to attribute in the past four decades. Many thousands yet remain to be researched and attributed. I heartily encourage my fellow collectors to have a go at this entertaining and rewarding aspect of numismatics ....
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HondoB's Avatar
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 Posted 07/30/2024  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice counterstamped IHC and excellent job of sleuthing, ExoGuy!
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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smauggie's Avatar
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 Posted 07/30/2024  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice little numistaic article.
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Marv65's Avatar
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 Posted 07/30/2024  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting history on a counter stamped cent!
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 07/30/2024  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pretty interesting piece of history.
Errers and Varietys.
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idk12345678's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add idk12345678 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting but it is still just PMD and thus still kills the value of the coin
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  02:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Interesting but it is still just PMD and thus still kills the value of the coin


Regarding this particular coin, this statement is true, but only IF the collector is a novice and/or isn't versed in the value of counterstamps. Because one collector doesn't see value in any particular coin does NOT mean that another collector will agree; this, given advanced knowledge about a coin .... be it a mint error, a rare variety OR a counterstamp.

This particular c/s has a lot going for it. First and foremost, it is a POSITIVE attribution as opposed to a POTENTIAL attribution. Note the stamp on the coin matches that on the knife. Adding to this, directory evidence confirms that there was but one "George Kay"
residing in Esopus at the time, late 1870's.

So, who would value this Esopus c/s beyond the value of an 1875 Indian cent in good condition? Well, a c/s collector would, as would a collector from Esopus. A NY token collector seeking a rare small town to add to his collection would value it. A collector of cutlery and related items would value it. A collector of inventor c/s's would value it. A Civil War buff who owns one of Kay's rare knives would value it. An ancestor of George Kay would value it .... etc.

In one of my earlier c/s threads, I wrote about the Cattaraugus Cutlery Company which had a c/s similar to this Esopus piece. A friend of mine paid over $700 at auction for a low grade, common date Liberty nickel that had the Cattaraugus c/s on it. He wanted it as the owner was an ancestor. There's no telling what the motivation of the underbidder(s) was.

@idk 12345678 .... I humbly suggest that you read some of my prior posts on c/s's. A great many c's'd coins, PMD though they technically are, have sold in the hundreds, thousands and even millions of dollars. My guess is that this Esopus c/s. in light of the history now attached, would realize a hundred or so at auction.

One more thing, idk, follow some c/s'd coins on ebay and/or check out auction house archives at Heritage and Stack's. When it comes to valuing coins, knowledge is key. Happy collecting ....
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captainrich's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  04:21 am  Show Profile   Check captainrich's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add captainrich to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Quote:
Regarding this particular coin, this statement is true, but only IF the collector is a novice and/or isn't versed in the value of counterstamps.


Thank you, exo!
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good read,thanks for posting.
John1
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thq's Avatar
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3342 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2024  07:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting story and good sleuthing!
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  08:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most enjoyable thread.
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jbuck's Avatar
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cipster's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cipster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ExoGuy,

Thank you. As always your posts are interesting and informative. Great insight to a piece of history.
Member ANA and EAC

"You got to lose to know how to win".
Dream On by Aerosmith
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the compliments and encouraging replies, guys .... I'll endeavor to keep these posts a-comin'
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jbuck's Avatar
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HondoB's Avatar
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 Posted 07/31/2024  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'll endeavor to keep these posts a-comin'

Please do, ExoGuy - this is a fascinating topic and I really enjoy seeing your coins and reading the history of their counterstamps.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
Edited by HondoB
07/31/2024 11:52 am
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