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China Wang Mang Spade - Genuine?

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aquilacavallo's Avatar
United States
84 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2024  8:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add aquilacavallo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I bought this Wang Mang spade coin in the 1990s from one of the most highly respected dealers of Chinese coins in the US. For a long time I thought the patina looked strange, but only recently looked at it in full detail.

The patina is a more vivid green than typical. It looks possibly painted on in places. You can see what looks like some brush strokes on the reverse. The green stuff scrapes off very easily. It's not like the typical copper oxide patina, which is much tougher. The flakes of the green stuff don't dissolve in weak acid, as copper oxide would. In short, I think it's paint.

What do you think from looking at it? It's 17.39g, 58 x 22 mm.
This is from a dealer who would never knowingly sell a fake. But then why is it painted, or is it?

China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16809 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2024  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm really, really not liking the appearance of this - it has none of what I'd expect to see on a genuine 2000 year old bronze artifact, and a lot of what I often see on a modern replica.

Does the green come off in acetone? If it does, it's either paint or "patina paste". Patina paste is a mixture of glue and crushed-up genuine-but-unidentifiable bronze artifacts, and was at one stage commonly employed on tourist replicas in China and Vietnam.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5823 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2024  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The vivid green color doesn't appeared correctly as patina, it maybe painted over on a genuine spade?
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187850 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2024  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not my area, but it does not look right to me. Acetone should not hurt a legit example, so I agree that is a course you can take.
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aquilacavallo's Avatar
United States
84 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2024  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aquilacavallo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you @Sap @macmercury @jbuck.

Acetone got the green gunk off easily. Here's what it looks like now. Would you say this is a modern copy?


China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
China-Wang-Mang-Spade---Genuine?
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187850 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2024  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Acetone got the green gunk off easily. Here's what it looks like now.
Night and day!

Quote:
Would you say this is a modern copy?
I await comments from our experts.
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