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Cleaned Coin Dilemma, Looking For Advice

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PaulInSeattle's Avatar
United States
1 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2025  12:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PaulInSeattle to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,

This is my first post, and I'd appreciate some words of wisdom from those here.

After receiving a number of French 20 Francs gold pieces from dealer specials and in trades, I decided to try to build a representative set of all the 20 franc pieces. If you're familiar with these, there are many variants (easily a half dozen with Napoleon I alone) but I wanted to keep it simple. Most of these pieces were bought at spot or at a small premium (5% or so).

The one piece with a large premium was an 1814A Napoleon, which had low mintage. Bought it from ebay for $100 over melt, from a seller who thought it could be graded straight. You can guess where this story ends, as two different LCS said the coin was cleaned. This dealer has since listed other Napoleon coins in different years with similar appearances, so I assume they either break coins out of slabs, perform some cleaning themselves, or both. Seller is willing to take the coin back.

It would likely be graded as "AU Details" which according to the price sheets means a small premium over melt. Perhaps a little more considering the mintage of 327K.

My dilemmas:
- one, it's a pretty coin. While both coin store employees said it was clearly cleaned, they also remarked how lovely the coin looks.
- two, I would need to replace it. I now assume raw ones will be cleaned, in poor condition, possibly both, and even those go for a premium. I may be able to pay a bit less for a coin with less eye appeal, likely still cleaned, and for a high mintage year.
- Graded Napoleons are not that difficult to find, but have a high premium. The best I can find is ~$200 over spot for a low grade XF, and it goes up from there.
- The last option is to stop the effort, and begin recapturing some of the premiums I paid for these coins as I exchange into more common bullion.

The other coins in the set are raw. One of them has grading potential (LCS said it would come back as AU) but looking at price sheets and auctions, it wouldn't add much resale value.

I'm probably not going to continue to collect coins, this was a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I would still like to finish the set, though.

What would you do?
Edited by PaulInSeattle
03/06/2025 1:12 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
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NumisEd's Avatar
United States
5177 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2025  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About four years ago I also assembled a set of ungraded 20 Francs coins, but decided to terminate the pursuit due to cost and - as you mentioned - the fact that some of the Francs unexpectedly received a "Details, cleaned" grade.
Unfortunately, the fact is that many European sellers (unknowingly) sell cleaned coins as "problem-free". And then you're stuck with them.

Cleaned-Coin-Dilemma,-Looking-For-Advice
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Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2025  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say you worry too much about this cleaned thing. A coin was cleaned so what? It is still a genuine coin. It has the same history. It represents the same.
Does it look bad after having been cleaned? If it does not, why would you seek to replace it with another in your collection?

Most people are concerned about this cleaned thing because of how it affects commercial value in some countries where the idea took hold. But commercial value is nor relevant for you who already posses the coin. You only lose in exchanging it.

Clean is bad is a mania disseminated by commercial interests that are about selling plastic boxes with grades written on it. They cannot evaluate easily how worn a cleaned coin is so they must discourage those being submitted. They dumped them all into a new coin sack they created called details or something else.

Is is legitimate for someone to say they see no problem with a coin that has been cleaned. If you ask is the coin cleaned and were told no, then you have motive for complaining.

Napoleons coins are so plentiful that I see no one bothering to break those plastic boxes on purpose to deceive anyone. Here they are often a minus to value because dealers must have the work to be rid of them before selling on. Bullion like coins are broken out no matter what the box says. Only those dealers selling online to certain countries put coins in boxes.
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