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Help Identifying Islamic Coin (Id: 12th Century Almoravid Quirate)

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eman7blue's Avatar
United States
13 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2025  9:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add eman7blue to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Not too familiar at all with Islamic coinage (which is what I assume this coin is), but I picked this coin up from a dealer's random world coin bin cause it looked neat, but I just cannot figure out what it is. Could someone more knowledgeable help?
Help-Identifying-Islamic-Coin-Id:-12th-Century-Almoravid-Quirate
Help-Identifying-Islamic-Coin-Id:-12th-Century-Almoravid-Quirate
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mrwiskers's Avatar
United States
1780 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2025  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwiskers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
eman7blue ... cool coin ...I can be of no help identifying, but it would be helpful if you can provide the weight (grams / 0.000) & diameter (mm) of this coin ...kudos on the nice, sharp photos, btw,,,


...also numista.com is a good search/reference ...
Edited by mrwiskers
06/24/2025 09:01 am
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triggersmob's Avatar
Australia
9352 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2025  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add triggersmob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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eman7blue's Avatar
United States
13 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2025  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eman7blue to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That Numista coin is probably it. I was looking at the obverse upside-down! The reverse is a bit different though, would be nice to know what it says.

Thank you for the help!

(Also if it matters, the weight is 0.98g and the size is 10.7mm which matches the one in Numista)
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mrwiskers's Avatar
United States
1780 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2025  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwiskers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, eman, weight & diameter are 2 of the factors that help to identify coins ... older counterfeit coins often vary quite a bit from the standard measurements. A decent set of calipers & an accurate scale are considered essential tools to a lot of collectors.

...I have an older caliper, Swiss made, that is plastic (no damage to the coin), & is very accurate. I bought a nice, small digital scale, under $25, that is good out to 1/1000g. I regularly calibrate it & test it against a more expensive laboratory scale... so far, it's very accurate ...

.... my testing set will be complete when one can purchace a reliable metals analyzer for under $50 (I'm not holding my breath...) lol
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2025  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The reverse is a bit different though, would be nice to know what it says.

No, they say essentially the same thing. The script on your coin is somewhat coarser in style but the lettering is the same.

I'd mostly agree with the transcriptions assigned to it by Numista, except for the second line; it doesn't just say "rasul allah" (messenger of Allah) it says "Mohammad rasul allah", naming the prophet in question.

The translation of the last line is also problematic; it says "al-amir sayr"; al-Amir is easy, it's a royal rank (often spelled "Emir"), equivalent to the European "Prince" or sometimes "King". But "Sayr" doesn't mean "Sir", it means something like "traveller" or perhaps "wanderer"; it's not the usual word to denote a "pilgrim". The context implies it might be someone's name, and it's not the Amir's own name as that is "Ali ibn Yusuf", given on the other side of the coin. But looking up this ruler on Wikipedia it states he did have a son named "Syr", who did not go on to succeed him as Amir (so presumably died in his youth).

There's no evidence that Syr himself was ever given any authority over a mint in the Almoravid empire, so I would assume this is Amir Ali ibn Yusuf naming his son Syr on his coin as his hopeful successor (a hope which did not ultimately eventuate).
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2025  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a nice looking and very well preserved Almoravid quirate. Weight and size are correct. There are some forgeries but I have no doubt yours looks genuine. It may have been struck in the Al-andalus or in Morocco. These did not carry mint names or date. Some of the later ones from the taifas period had city names.

Ali ben Yusuf with a reference to his heir Sir (as emir) puts the coin in the time frame 522-533 (1128-1139). Numista is incorrect in the dating. Ali ben Yusuf issued quirates also without heir and with the name of his heir Tashufin (1139-1143). Tashufin had been governor in the Al-andalus and succeeded his father.

The Ali ben Yusuf quirates are the most common ones but they are not abundant so you made a good find. I only recently completed my collection of his major types.

His heirs had brief reigns. The empire decomposed after the rebellion of ibn Qasi in the western al-Aldalus in 1144 and the advances of the Almohads in Morocco. Tashufin died in 1145, his son and heir Ibrahim was deposed by Tashufin 's brother Ishaq be Ali ben Yusuf, and the empire fell in 1147.

Edited by jecz79
06/27/2025 5:40 pm
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7933 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2025  05:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I picked this coin up from a dealer's random world coin bin


Seriously? I need to shop there (wherever there is).
Sap and jecz79, thanks for providing great context for the coin!
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