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Opinion On A Couple Of Theodosius Coins - Modern Fakes

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Pillar of the Community

Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2026  5:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have offered an opinion on a couple of Theodosius coins that placed me in a position of wanting other opinions, if possible. Already asked on another forum but it will do no harm to ask here also.

I am not comfortable offering opinions with great certainty about these types. I am by default suspicious of all these coins. For many years I avoided any late roman and byzantine gold in my collection because of reading about so many fakes of those.

But I like seeing them and handling them when I can. So I did with a collection that was supposed to be very old. Among many nice coins these two seemed off to me. Looking closely they have the same obverse die. But different reverses. This alone is very damning and the coins are now very likely to be deemed be deemed fake and destroyed. Unless there is some good reason to think otherwise.

Opinion-On-A-Couple-Of-Theodosius-Coins---Modern-Fakes

Opinion-On-A-Couple-Of-Theodosius-Coins---Modern-Fakes

I wished other opinions, to be absolutely certain, before they are scrapped. I looked through bulgarian fakes of 20 years ago but I have not yet found a match among the published fake dies I saw.

What can collectors of this type here say about this couple of coins?
I do not want to comment the style. But I can offer also that they seem to be overweight. But not collecting this type I am not sure about weight variance. 4.49 and 4.51 g.
Edited by jecz79
04/10/2026 09:24 am
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1303 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2026  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When you say before they are "scrapped", if these were made when gold was cheap, you might want to check if they are gold or not. $154 a gram today. 25 years ago it was just $9 a gram. (And no, I don't believe they are real.)
Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2026  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. I know. At least now it is not a bad time to scrap fakes made with good gold.
I would really like to understand about how these were made. Transfer dies? Carved dies?
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1303 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2026  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The left coin, Agora sold one very close apparently. And that reverse is very close to theirs. Of course the same obverse for the coin you show in the right then a reverse you see on a facing coin, these two should never have traveled together if anyone wanted them to sell. If the Agora below is real, did an artist copy it?

https://www.ma-shops.com/drijver/item.php?id=834
Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 04/10/2026  04:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much. That was a great find. I have compared that photo with the ones I photographed and have no doubt that the one on the left is a duplicate, obverse and reverse.

I will look at them in hand again with the photo from this auction. But the details on those two seem to me softer. They would be copies, and the one you found may be perhaps the genuine. Cannot be sure without seeing them live again, and I cannot see that one sold in the past. But now I wonder if the copies are cast. But they had seemed struck to me despite the different shine. I will attempt to examine and compare surfaces if I am allowed the opportunity.

It is now clear to me that my friend was tricked by whom sold him the whole group of coins. They cannot have been part of an old collection together. Not these two. I will try to get to the bottom of this. With this reference 'A. Ronde in BSFN 63/9 (2008)' I am quickly finding auctions of similar coins in 2009, 2010 and 2015. Now on to finding the photos of those.

If these are fakes they have been around for some years and it is time to set this straight. Will update this. Thanks!

Edited by jecz79
04/10/2026 05:00 am
Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 04/10/2026  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had not noticed in the description of the one found by louisvillekyshop: that one is described as a commemorative medal, larger than a solidus (1 1/4 solidus).

It appears to have been sold at least 5 times since it first emerged.
First time by The New York Sale in January 2010.
3 times by Kunker, there is a good photo from the last time here: https://www.numisbids.com/sale/3024/lot/2052
Another by Agora most recently.
A coin that changes hands very frequently is automatically suspicious. Medallions of this size for Theodosius were extremely rare. I wonder if any good provenance was provided for the one that they say emerged in 2008. Caveat emptor.

One of the two coins I show here is a copy of both dies of this medallion. The other is a copy of the obverse with a different reverse. I have now put away doubts about them being fake because there are several flaws on the obverse that are reproduced exactly in both. The question is now how they were created.

Either they were reproduced almost perfectly from the published auction photos, which I thing is hard. If it can be done it is very scary. Or someone who possessed that medallion has produced these fakes.

I now have those two fakes on loan to investigate and document. I am attaching better photos I just made.

Opinion-On-A-Couple-Of-Theodosius-Coins---Modern-Fakes

Opinion-On-A-Couple-Of-Theodosius-Coins---Modern-Fakes

These two fakes appear cast, because of the same flaws in both: scratch, dimples. I must say, this is becoming a bit damning for that medallion also.
It must have been in the possession of the criminals who made these two fakes. It is either the original used to cast one of these fakes and the obverse of the other. Or it may be another production of the same gang.

I remain very scared of collecting ancients :(
Edited by jecz79
04/10/2026 10:42 am
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