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 Replies: 30 / Views: 6,963 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
This thing about "trusting" anyone's opinion but your own still eludes me. If you grade a nickel MS 66 and someone else says "Yeah it sure is" and takes 20 bucks off you, where's the trust in that?
Reminds me of the Emperors new wardrobe.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
632 Posts |
Interesting Steve, thanks
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1051 Posts |
4 HR's? That's more than any man needs, you should sell me one MM ;o) Ugly, it's not about agreeing with the guy that's grading your coin, it's about the guy 2000km away that wants to buy it who can't see it in hand before laying down his hard earned dough, and would like more than your word that it's "very nice". I was listening to a Peter Schiff blurb earlier this evening about the inherent fallacies of Keynesian economics, and the idea that demand ultimately creates a supply. The idea presented was that a new supply in fact serves to create a demand where none existed before, and as we discuss this topic I find the market share of TPG's very applicable to what he was saying in that interview. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
650 Posts |
I'm more of a raw collector I think, I know what I have, If I'm selling I guess I will find out. And I like the hard slab idea better than the flip but I do find it bulky.I would go the CCCS.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:The idea presented was that a new supply in fact serves to create a demand where none existed before, and as we discuss this topic I find the market share of TPG's very applicable to what he was saying in that interview. A little of both in the case of TPG's, I think. Demand existed, but on a small scale which exploded when supply became available. People simply *didn't* buy sight-unseen prior, except via the somewhat-lame subscription model or from dealers they knew and implicitly trusted. This increase in demand has been the TPGs' downfall - a viable (profitable) business model requires high labor costs to retain graders of the necessary caliber (they could as easily be successful dealers), which in turn requires a bunch of revenue. Consequently, hurried graders make human mistakes in their need to process a bunch of coins quickly. IMO the only saving grace for TPS's will be the advent of computerized grading eliminating the need for all but the Finalizer. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
Just to address that point you made 1cent, most economic models are incomplete in this day and age as they continually fail to factor in the power of ideas driven by instant communication. Long term forecasts for debt strength and bullion value as well as auto sector recovery are pretty much showing the holes in current modeling. Essentially, markets are driven by thought and ideas. Real products are just an outcome of how to position a sale that fills some marketing identified need. This TPG service isn't a product as much as it's a marketing position identified and filled. People wanted to trust what they were buying more, TPG opinions provide this and make some people feel very secure. It's not a chicken and egg scenario, products are designed after needs are identified. They are refined the same way as new needs are identified. Even pet rocks are a needs built product. In brief, the product was already there (coins) and TPG's just refined how to offer opinions on coins in order to increase trust. If a buyer is willing to lay down big cash on a coin based on a third party opinion sight unseen, then they have a tolerance for occasional disappointment that's been identified and classified by some marketing guru somewhere. It's then given a weighting in terms of liability insurance and legal retainers that's deemed acceptable within the business model. This is where Canadian TPGs separate entirely from the larger US counterparts. They have little liability and no skin in the game. There is very little risk to them in offering an opinion and they do so knowing this. I imagine many people would grade and shrink wrap a coin for a fee if they could not be held responsible for their opinion. I think it smacks of the upsale; when you order your car and the sales manager wants you buy extended warranty, accessories and rust protection. I always want to pop that guy on the nose. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
Hold the laughter ........ this oldtimer prefers SEGS! The physical housing is by far the most durable. They've been great for me when it comes to having a variety confirmed. Their service has been top-notch, and they're far more available to receive submissions, even at many of the smaller shows. Turn-around time and costs are most competetive, too. All around, I consider SEGS to be the best deal for certification.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1051 Posts |
Quote:Essentially, markets are driven by thought and ideas. Real products are just an outcome of how to position a sale that fills some marketing identified need. This TPG service isn't a product as much as it's a marketing position identified and filled. You are more of less agreeing with what I am saying, but you seem to think that you aren't. A new idea doesn't necessarily fill a need though, it can create a product that will generate demand. Sight-unseen coin purchases were not a need, they became a new option after the advent of the TPG services. I believe it can be a chicken/egg scenario. Sometimes a need is identified and a product is created to meet that need. Other times, a new product may be revolutionary, and people will jump on board without any prior thought having been given to a product of that nature. How about the Windows operating system? I doubt that people were sitting around wishing that they had a GUI-based OS for their computer (if they even had one). It happened though, and now just about anyone that doesn't live in a cave has owned a home computer that is equipped with Windows. Like the TPG slab, I believe it was vision that created the idea, and that the idea then created it's own market. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
Actually they did sit around wishing for a GUI (point and choose, the mouse concept was invention driven). Someone mentioned it to some guys at Xerox Labs and the rest is history. It's all a thought based economy, manipulating thought at that. That's what TPG's do. They make coins safe, they don't change them in any way at all. |
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Valued Member
Canada
307 Posts |
interesting topic and from what I can see many diifferent opinions but CCCS seems to be the more favorite of them all.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1554 Posts |
 HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM tight race here!  |
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Valued Member
Canada
142 Posts |
Regarding PCGS/NGC and NFLD coins they are simply atrocious overgraders. I can't fathom who they get away with it. I'll post a few examples. This one is an absolute joke slabbed as EF40. Should be VF http://cgi.ebay.com/LOW-MINTAGE-187...t_3038wt_905This one should be F at most and it's slabbed at XF40. http://cgi.ebay.com/Newfoundland-18...ht_500wt_922Definitely an EF40 coin bu slabbed as AU50 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...t_4045wt_986There are dozens of examples all over ebay with horrible graded NFLD coins. I actually don't get any coins graded and the ones I've purchased I pop out of the case. CCCS looks the most intriguing to me although I havn't seen how they grade NFLD coins, so I can't have a firm opinion. I just can't fathom why ICCS doesn't have hard slabs or a website. I was bored one day and purchased a 2005 MS66 "Numismatic BU" cent that ICCS had graded and there was a finger print on the coin... that was turning black. I just gave it to the local dealer here and told him to give it to some kid. |
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Valued Member
Canada
371 Posts |
I agree with Fredor. The American grading companies like PCGS and NGC cannot grade NFLD coins to save their lives. Personally, I feel that ICCS does a much better job of grading conservatively, but I think it's about time that they got a website and joined the wrest of us in the 21st century!
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Valued Member
Canada
464 Posts |
I have never had a coin slabbed with PCGS, or NGC for that matter. The reason being is the cost of cross-border shipping. I have only used CCCS once; the cost and turn-around time was reasonable, and feel they got the grade right...So there's my vote.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
 Lately I've been quite impressed with C.C.C.S. I won a (hard case)C.C.C.S. 1870, dime, Narrow "0", MS-63 at an internet auction for less than $600.00. After receiving the coin, I cracked it out of it's hard shell and submitted it to I.C.C.S. It came back an MS-64 to my delight! The coin was severely undergraded by Louis Chevrier and I knew it when I received it in hand. I feel C.C.C.S. is mimicking I.C.C.S.'s "conservative" grading style in order to make a name for themselves. Glenn |
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Replies: 30 / Views: 6,963 |
First Page
Posted 06/13/2010 10:04 pm
