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Geneva 3 Quarts/9 Deniers 1785 - Billon Or Silver?

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1666 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2010  7:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi guys,
The KM catalog does not list any weights or differences for the billon and silver types for this coin. This looks like it may be the more rare silver version, but I cannot be sure. It is a very thin coin that weighs 1 gram and measures 17mm. The coin had some yellow glue on it, most of which I managed to remove.
Perhaps someone with experience or a good Swiss book can tell the difference for sure?
Thank you kindly! =)

Geneva-3-Quarts/9-Deniers-1785---Billon-Or-Silver?

Geneva-3-Quarts/9-Deniers-1785---Billon-Or-Silver?
Edited by Numismat
07/20/2010 7:29 pm
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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2010  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does look like silver to me. I found an example of a billon coin to compare.

Geneva-3-Quarts/9-Deniers-1785---Billon-Or-Silver?
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United States
645 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2010  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't believe anything but a specific gravity test could prove it silver unless they were issued with different weights.
Billon coins often look like good silver before they circulate.
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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2010  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Specific Gravity testing would be adequate to tell the difference between silver and billion BUT in this case the coin weighs only 1 gram. The tolerance of measurements would require an accuracy of approximately 0.0003 grams MINIMUM. I do not know where you would find such accuracy.

This seems to me to be a case for XRF. That test which is also non-destructive can be done but it costs about $30 per test. If the coin is valuable enough - the XRF test is the best candidate.
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 Posted 07/21/2010  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
svslav - thanks for that comparison picture! Both coins appear to have about the same details, so this is a great point of contrast against my coin. I appreciate it! =)

DCH - Sounds like a plan, but I have never relied on a specific gravity test before. Will need to do some research on the best methods to do it at home. Thanks for the tip!

Swamperbob - Thank you as always for your deep insight. I have never heard of an XRF test before, but I do believe this coin is valuable enough (if indeed silver) to justify doing it. Is this something a local jeweler would do, or should I seek out a specialist? Thanks!
Edited by Numismat
07/21/2010 12:04 am
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5362 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2010  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numismat The test is now done by PCGS as an add on to their regular grading services. They charge $30 extra but I am not 100% certain they do coins of this type.

Most jewelers do not use XRF the testing apparatus because it is too expensive. You can find them in college physics laboratories and in Nuclear power plant laboratories. But access to these facilities is next to impossible unless you know someone on the inside.

There is one on line coin dealer who used to offer to test coins for about $30 each. I ran into him while doing a google search a year or so ago.

Good luck but if PCGS will certify the coin, I would go that route.
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 Posted 07/21/2010  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you swamperbob, I will certainly follow your advice. =)
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