Reporting A Fake/Counterfeit To Ebay

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Author	Replies: 11 / Views: 4,246
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 07/22/2010 08:31 am I only rarely report counterfeit 8R coins to ebay because after all they are what I collect and I don't usually like ebay to interfere. However, as I have said before I do make a few exceptions for the Modern Chinese JUNK fantasy coins - 1776 Mo, 1882 Zs and 1884 Zs 8Rs. These are GARBAGE - no value to anyone. These 3 coins appear every week on ebay in large numbers. My anual study of ebay postings showed over 500 1882 Zs copies appearing on ebay in 12 months. So when one of these hunks of junk shows up, I write to the seller - let him/her know what they are selling and provide links to auctions that properly describe the coin as a replica or a counterfeit. Well, this past week I contacted 6 sellers - 4 either withdrew the coins or changed their descriptions and lowered the price. But 2 were not as agreeable. One was defiant in tone and the other one ignored me. So with 4 days left in the auctions I used the link in this forum to report both coins as fakes. About a day later, I got a form letter back saying that ebay would refer the auctions to a panel of experts for review, but that they couldn't tell me any result because of privacy. So far so good I thought. This is a no brainer. Well neither auction has been terminated. The defiant seller US based got nearly $20 for this hunk of GARBAGE. The Chinese seller who did not reply has one bid of $0.95 (plus $8.60 shipping) with 16 hours left. Last night, ebay then had the nerve to send me a survey to see how my complaint was handled. Well my ratings were just a bit LOW. If the panel of "EXPERTS" needs more than ONE SECOND to identify this coin as a fake - they are not expert at anything. There is NO NEED to contact the seller. The coin itself is a RED FLAG as bad as saying "I AM SELLING A FAKE". So why does it take longer than a few minutes to stop this kind of auction? I have seen a 2 day auction for a properly described counterfeit TERMINATED by ebay with NO WARNING to the seller at all. NO CONTACT. So why take so long with these forgeries - this is FRAUD. Here is the picture posted by the US seller (final price $15.50 plus $3.95 shipping) : All I can say is SHAME on ebay and SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on their panel of so called experts. Report this Post to the Staff

Litotes Pillar of the Community Norway 510 Posts	Posted 07/22/2010 08:58 am I suppose the "expert"'s real area of expertise lies somewhere else, like telling the difference between fake and genuine Louis Vuitton handbags. I expect their coin expertice is nonexistent. If the seller writes "fake" or "counterfeit" they know enough to pull, since they hate those words, but interpreting pictures is beyond them. I imagine they would be hard pressed to stop an auction of a US 3½-dollar bill if the seller claimed it was genuine. And, of course, one does not know who bought this "coin" so a heads-up is no longer an option. Just tragic. Report this Post to the Staff
fioti Pillar of the Community United States 4212 Posts	Posted 07/22/2010 09:57 am Well, I've generally reported the 8's that you bring to attention here. Not because I'm actively looking, but because I feel your frustration and passion. My son recently got a clipped Jeff. pulled with no warning. The bay said in it's message that while they have NO panel of experts, they have consumer watchdogs. I wonder if we're their "experts"? Now that's a scary thought, Swampman watchdog! Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 07/22/2010 11:09 am On at least three occasions I have volunteered to be an expert for ebay on coins (specifically Mexican Coins), but they have no interest in setting up a coin panel. Not all counterfeits should be reported or terminated. Legal counterfeits such as every coin listed in Riddell's book should be automatically exempt, but even those SHOULD BE PROPERLY DESCRIBED. The junk from China on the other hand has to be stopped before the hobby sinks under the dead weight of worthless forgeries. A US buyer has no right to turn around a re-post a fake on ebay simply because they were fooled. Report this Post to the Staff
Pandesalapi Valued Member Philippines 386 Posts	Posted 07/22/2010 5:40 pm Quote: The junk from China on the other hand has to be stopped before the hobby sinks under the dead weight of worthless forgeries This is the sad part of the hobby... ebay doesn't care, it's their so-called business interest... Chinese counterfeiters, it's their craft they do not have other source of income for their family to be fed on... Quote: All I can say is SHAME on ebay and SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on their panel of so called experts. We are all with you, we share the same sentiments Swamperbob. we all know there are no experts in ebay panel... Lets just continue to expose fakes, study and discuss how to easily sense authentic coins and enjoy our coins and the hobby... Report this Post to the Staff
Litotes Pillar of the Community Norway 510 Posts	Posted 07/23/2010 06:39 am Well said, Pandesalapi. We should do our best to look out for each other, and don't let the forgers destroy the pleasure our hobby gives us. Report this Post to the Staff
willieboyd2 Pillar of the Community United States 524 Posts	Posted 07/23/2010 2:15 pm Do you really want ebay in the coin grading or authentication business? :) https://www.brianrxm.com The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin Coins in Movies Coins on Television Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 07/23/2010 9:09 pm I do not want ebay authenticating coins, but they already use their ridiculous policy against counterfeits to stop auctions where perfectly LEGAL counterfeits are PROPERLY IDENTIFIED. But they fail to cancel FRAUDULENT offerings like I have pointed out on many occasions. I would prefer that they focus their efforts on FRAUD and not the word counterfeit. It is BEYOND STUPID to equate the 1882 Zs Chinese fake with any coin listed in Riddell or with any of the thousand non-regal colonial issues. They indicate they have a panel of experts - I would like to talk to them just once. Report this Post to the Staff
8 R€ÅL€Š™ New Member United States 33 Posts	Posted 07/27/2010 12:46 am 100% agreed Swamperbob. I am relatively new to 8R's, not more than 3 years buying these and I dont own that many but I am sick of seeing all the chinese crap on ebay and I did get burned when I started buyng cap & rays. I love the 8R coins and I plan to acquire more in the future but I always have to be careful when shopping online. At least at the coin shows/stores I always have my handy dandy pocket scale to weigh the coins and I can inspect the edge. As for the Chinese coins hopefully they keep cranking them out with that hideous eagle head, that way they're easier to spot but if they ever up the quality of the coins it might create a problem. Where it gets really tricky for me is when I'm trying to spot the contemporary counterfeits. For the time being I am trying to focus on the original 8R's so its gonna be hard to spot them. Edited by 8 R€ÅL€Š™ 07/27/2010 12:49 am Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 07/29/2010 6:27 pm Once you know the originals inside and out - then the counterfeits will stand right out. The issue that takes much longer to master is distinguishing between early and late forgeries. The techniques used are part art and part science . This becomes clearer with time. Always remember a KEY FACT. Quote: A coin can not have been made before the technology used to make it existed. That is a quote I like - (not only because I am the author), but because it is true, yet OVERLOOKED all the time. A good example of the principle are coins minted in German Silver which were supposedly manufactured in the 1770s or coins made from Sheffield Plate supposedly made in the 1690's. I have seen coins that fall into both groups for sale as Contemporary Counterfeits. But both are impossible dates based on the first uses of the two technologies. (German Silver dates to the 1830's and Sheffield Plate to the 1770's). You would be surprised at how many experts have never checked exactly when technologies were introduced. Remember a counterfeit meant to circulate was a copy of a common coin that STILL CIRCULATED at the time it was made. Would a forger make an 1894 US Quarter Dollar for circulation today. OF COURSE NOT! So you need to know what types of coins were actually circulating BEFORE you can know which were forged. There is a corollary to the first quote: Quote: Technology is no guarantee of age. By that I mean that any old technology can still be used today to make a counterfeit. It is possible to make a Sheffield Plate coin today. The best example of this error is the fact that some "experts" automatically classify Sheffield Portrait 8Rs as "Birmingham". Birmingham LIKE perhaps, but a true Birmingham must be on the list or share a die punch with one on the list to qualify. (My opinion.) Another example is the recent tendency of many sellers to call all counterfeits Contemporary with no factual basis because they are cast - and that is an early technology but not all cast counterfeits are old. Report this Post to the Staff
8 R€ÅL€Š™ New Member United States 33 Posts	Posted 07/29/2010 11:21 pm In the meantime while I learn more & more about these coins, if I'm confused about a 8R Ill post on a picture of the coin I'm interested in and cross my fingers that you log on swamperbob. Edited by 8 R€ÅL€Š™ 07/29/2010 11:21 pm Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 07/30/2010 09:10 am Where is the coin? I will look at it. Report this Post to the Staff
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Reporting A Counterfeit To Ebay