Pillar 8 Reales, Check It Out!!

I was thinking about starting a new thread but, this one is along the same lines. It's seen better days but, is it real?

dsking - Good News - your 8R is a counterfeit. I say that because given the state of preservation it is worth more as a counterfeit than an original.

It is not a date listed in Riddell's book but stylistically it has many similar features. It is linked to the extremely common 1832 Zs OM series with the broken toe on the eagle. Those coins were made in the NE part of the US during the Hard Times and they saw extensive circulation because they were debased silver. Many coins in this emission test up to 70% silver. They can almost be treated as a "token" set because they clearly circulated long after the surface layers wore off and people could see they were not solid silver.

The coin itself was made from dies created from a good but fantasy set of die punches. Most experts suspect a jeweler. You will find this same eagle on at least 20 different forgeries - perhaps more. The coin was struck in an open screw press - usually the blanks were edged on a standard two bar edging mill (but using a thicker segment which I can see on your edge picture) and the blanks are Sheffield Plate with two high grade silver layers overlaying a low grade silver core. They were produced by jewelers and token makers as a substitute for hard currency. They are not attributed (no maker's initials or name) and so they are classed as counterfeits. These same forgers at a later period in time turned to making their coins out of a sandwich of high grade silver over German Silver and over copper. These later, more worthless emissions were often cut and drilled because they lacked just about any value. They also may date to the 1840s after the monetary crisis was over.

Even in the condition of your coin - I would value it at $15 to $20.

Meiji03 - I looked up your coin and I also checked the seller's list of closed auctions. In that group of completed items are a few coins that are beyond any doubt counterfeit. Some appear to come from the Beijing group. It is hard to be 100% from his scans but there are too many coincidental dates for there to be no connection. These forgers have a lengthy list of forged dates and it is hard to envision so many different people just accidentally posting the identical counterfeit dates and denominations innocently.

Meiji03 - I just checked Daniel Sedwick's website. He is one of the authors of the "Practical Book of Cobs" and is an expert in his field. He always lists a few of the more notorious dealers in counterfeit coins and - your seller is on his list right now.

http://www.sedwickcoins.com

Given that and the highly suspect nature of his other offerings I would now give you odds that your coin is a fake. BUT it is a GREAT fake. I don't think any Modern fake is worth over $100, but if you can't get your money back - I would definitely be interested in the coin as a fake for a substantial part of your investment. I would like to see it in bigger pictures however.

Meiji03 - Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - however, this should be a good learning experience for you. This is exactly the kind of auction that Forum members have been complaining about since I joined. The Chinese seller uses Private Auctions. That is a double RED flag to avoid the auction in almost every case. There are quite a few of us who warn bidders when they bid on forgeries. But in a Private auction guys like us can not warn you when you bid.

In the future, why don't you ask me before you bid on any coin you are unsure of. I can at least give you an opinion. I do that for perhaps 20 bidders at present. I usually give opinions on Spanish American material (usually 8R), but I collect a very wide range of coins and I will try on most issues where I have knowledge.

Thank you Bob for an awesome lesson in pillar forgery. I wish to take you up on the offer, I've emailed you another ebay buy I made, please let me know ^^ Thanks again, I'm going through the process of trying to resolve this with the seller and paypal now. I'll keep you updated.