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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,231 |
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Valued Member
United States
425 Posts |
OK, I have read here that coin makers of long ago,(and still today maybe?), would heat metal blanks before stamping/coining them to make it easier on the dies.
The power company replaced my power pole, I pulled the copper ground wire off the old pole. Part of that wire had some old insulation and I burned it off, after the wire cooled it was much more flexable than it was before being heated.
So why are copper coins so hard?
Do they not heat copper blanks? Is there a "tempering" of the coin after minting? What is the answer?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
A very interesting question...I await an equally interesting answer. 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Planchets are annealed(heated) before striking to soften them. The physical act of striking a planchet creates a process called work hardening. This is the same reason why dies would have to be annealed between hubbings during the double squeeze era. If you tried to hub a die the second time without annealing it, you would more than likely have a cracked or shattered die on your hands. However, I would not consider copper coins to be "hard" as it is one of the softest metals still used for circulating coinage.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
Also, aren't copper coins an alloy of copper and another metal? Alloys can often have different properties then either of their constituents.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
I would imagine some world mints are still producing >95% copper coins but yes, most "copper" coins are bronze or brass alloys which are typically harder than pure copper.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
And it is common as noted that some metals when mixed with othere create entire new properties. Such is the situation with Copper and Zinc. Bronze is a really great example of that since at one time the mixtures of metals made them strong enough to use as weapons. There are numerous such oddities in metalurgy such as Stainless Steels where there are many, many grades due to the variety of mixtures. One of them, although contains Iron, is non magnetic completely and is used due to that property. One thing to remember about a penny's hardness is the size too. A long wire of the same material and of the same thickness is easy to bend regardless of the temperature. The penny is rather small and difficult to get a grip on to bend.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
There were many copper coins in the 19th C. Perhaps pure copper was easier to smelt into coin stock, but since it was softer than bronze it would certainly prolong die life. Here's one of my favorite copper coins. 
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Moderator
 Australia
16826 Posts |
Ancient Greek and Roman "copper" coins were typically bronze - an alloy of copper and tin. Bronze is much harder than pure copper.
By 600 AD, bronze coins were basically extinct in Europe. When small change was re-invented in the renaissance, pure copper rather than bronze was typically used. Bronze replaced copper again during the 1800s.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Rest in Peace
United States
1943 Posts |
The copper plated zinc planchets are supplied to the mint by an outside source and it has been confirmed by them in the past that they do not anneal the current cent planchet. As far as I know the rest of our denominations are annealed. But after they are annealed they are tumbled to clean them so when the coins are struck they are struck in a cold state and not while hot. I think the original question was referring to an old method where the planchet would be hot when it was struck to make it more malleable. To my knowledge the US mint has never done this.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote: Ancient Greek and Roman "copper" coins were typically bronze - an alloy of copper and tin. Bronze is much harder than pure copper.
Although Bronze is basically Copper and Tin, in most instances for hardness or appearances many other substances are included. By Substances this indicates that other than metals have been added. For example such items as Phosphorus, Manganese, Aluminum, and even Silicon were added to the mixture. Swords had to be hard since Steel hadn't been invented yet. Coins too varied in mixtures since quality controls were not really important.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote: The power company replaced my power pole, I pulled the copper ground wire off the old pole. Part of that wire had some old insulation and I burned it off, after the wire cooled it was much more flexable than it was before being heated.
And did it occur to you that you may have been comparing the bendability of insulated wire compared to bare wire? And grounding wires do not have the stringent purification necessities of current carrying wires and cables. And in some areas the Copper grounding wires are Lead Covered also.
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Valued Member
 United States
425 Posts |
Quote: "And did it occur to you that you may have been comparing the bendability of insulated wire compared to bare wire? And grounding wires do not have the stringent purification necessities of current carrying wires and cables. And in some areas the Copper grounding wires are Lead Covered also."
You know just carl, Very little occured to me at all! This whole thing kinda dumb-founded me. The grounding wire on this pole was insulated with some kind of rapping material, not plastic, more like cloth with tar or something?. Most of the wrapping had fallen off but some was still on there pretty good. I cut out the bare wire sections and folded them up,(this was not "easy" to do as the wire was very stiff). I live out in the country and we have a burn permit, while burning some brush I tossed in the wire and burned the insulation off. After the wire had cooled off, no heat felt at all, I could easily wrap the wire around one hand into a fairly small loop, unlike the same wire that had not been heated. So this is why I asked about the big pennies and other copper coins I see. So the replies and posts make more sense..... I am sure my copper wire is pure copper, were pennies are not!
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Valued Member
 United States
425 Posts |
Quote: " I think the original question was referring to an old method where the planchet would be hot when it was struck to make it more malleable. To my knowledge the US mint has never done this."
Yes pyrbob, this is exactly what I was talking/asking about! And the replies talking about mixing in brass, bronze, etc.... make alot of sense. Also the heating then hammering of the copper makes sense. Also explains why the really old copper coins can be found folded over! Thanks to all!
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,231 |
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