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How Many Of You Melt Your Silver?

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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2011  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I've read several articles recently where the writer practically ridicules anyone who saves common circulating U.S. coins and I certainly see their point of view. - Danester

At one time, 90% silver coins were "common circulating U.S. coins". Anyone feel like ridiculing someone with the foresight to have saved a few thousand of them? I sure don't.


Quote:
Thrift is a habit. A habit is a thing you do unconsciously or automatically, without thought. We are ruled by our habits. When habits are young they are like lion-cubs, soft, fluffy, funny, frolicsome little animals. They grow day by day. Eventually they rule you.

Exactly so. Even when we no longer need this or that habit, it can be virtually impossible to get rid of them. I scrimped, saved, and invested for many years so that I could retire comfortably at an age young enough to actually enjoy that time of life. Now that this goal has been achieved, do you think I can spend the money that I have acquired? No, not really. My saving and investing habits are just too powerful for me to over-ride them, even though I recognize that they are no longer a requirement. I just do not like spending money all that much. I will make an exception now and then for some nice coins, of course, but that seems more to me like converting one form of money into another than actually spending money on "things".
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2011  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That 2006 article is out of date. It is illegal to melt or export quantities of US cents and nickels. - BiggFredd

I believe you, Fred, but do you have an authoritative source for this? It would be good to have as proof that I can use in other discussions.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2011  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only thing that would ever tempt me to melt down any silver was if there were vampires lurking about and I needed to cast a few bullets.
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wrestling_135's Avatar
United States
802 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2011  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wrestling_135 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice Ed, ha ha
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desertgem's Avatar
United States
860 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2011  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add desertgem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Still in effect since 2006


Quote:
Under the new rules, it is illegal to melt pennies and nickels. It is also illegal to export the coins for melting. Travelers may legally carry up to $5 in 1- and 5-cent coins out of the USA or ship $100 of the coins abroad "for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes."

Violators could spend up to five years in prison and pay as much as $10,000 in fines. Plus, the government will confiscate any coins or metal used in melting schemes.
.

from:http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-...n-usat_x.htm
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2011  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back to the ?:

Over the years, we've sold a few ounces of sterling to artists who want to make jewelry. Aside from that it makes no sense:

item of known purity
+ possible premium value
+ time and materials to melt
- loss of silver in processing
-> ugly lump
+ unknown purity
+ no premium value
+ option "all or none"
- cost of assay before resale
= huge net loss
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2011  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can't prove it is real once you melt it down, costs to much to do so and turn into bars, no meat left on the bone....

Like Ed said, you could melt them down to make some silver bullets in case you want to build your own "Vampire slaying kit", rof!

And believe it or not, a few make them and sell them on ebay for 200 to 400 a pop each time, lol. But, by the time you buy the holy water, and old rosary beads, antique NON firing pistol, buy the material to make some wooden stakes and build the box first class, buy an old bible, ad other trinkets like vampire garlic replant, you don't have much (again) meat left on the bone....

Cost to make 150. Profit after ebay and pay-pal like 20 bucks. The satisfaction of selling someone a homemade vampire killing kit, priceless....

They actually made these for century's a key for travel across the European country side in the dark cold winter. Real ones bring big money, as I saw one sell on an auction show for 12 grand, and it had a crossbow with a silver tipped arrow....

I don't have one of these, but one would think it would make a good coffee table converstaion piece. What does this have to do with anything, well another fine example of silver actually being used in these sets, lol....


http://cgi.ebay.com/Vampire-Hunter-...em2310fae26f
Edited by Silverhawk74
06/09/2011 01:41 am
Valued Member
Danester's Avatar
United States
213 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2011  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Danester to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is the Section and Title number of the Federal Criminal Code that states it is illegal to melt US coins?

The Danester
Valued Member
Danester's Avatar
United States
213 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2011  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Danester to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As Clint Eastwood said in the Gautlet (1977). Any lawyers here?

Shockley : "Now the next turkey who tries that, I'm gonna shoot 'em, stuff 'em and stick an apple in his ass, any takers? You? You? You? You?"

Biker : "Hey man, you can't do this without a warrant!"

Shockley : "Man says I need a warrant, huh? Well the man don't know jack sh*t! Now anybody here know more about the law here than me? Any lawyers here? Any lawyers wanna tell me why I don't need a warrant?"

Biker : "Hey man, why don't you get off our case."

Shockley : "You with the f*ckin' hair. You look smart. Why don't you tell me why I'm entitled to come in here any time I please."

--------------------------------------------------

From WikiLaw3k.org. Here is the law.

"Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States. This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent"

It could not be any clearer, you can do anything you want to do with your coins as long as you are not trying to commit fraud with your altered coins.

This applies to all US coins... but things get a little cloudy...

...As of April of 2007 the US Mint Under new rules, made it "illegal to melt pennies and nickels" according to one major news outlet.

Now the interesting thing is the use of the word "rule" instead of "law".

The mint cannot pass laws. Only Congress can pass laws but what do the major news organizations care what the constitution says?

I've tried to find out if the "rule" governing the melting of pennies and nickels has actual become law , My research suggests it has not. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

At any rate, the current actual law makes it clear that melting or defacing your US coins (any and all coins including pennies and nickels) is not illegal and since, in this case, the passing of a new law would contradict a current law and changing the old law is extremely unlikely to happen. I would suggest the mint is all bark and no bite.

Conclusion: As long as you are not trying to commit fraud, you can do whatever you like to with your coins.
As far as the new "rules" regarding pennies and nickels, the mint, with the help of the un-American press, can claim and say anything they like but you can't be prosecuted for a law that does not exist.

http://www.wikilaw3k.org/forum1/Law...l-606181.htm

The Danester
Edited by Danester
06/09/2011 7:34 pm
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2011  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
but what do the major news organizations care what the constitution says?

Once they got past that freedom of speech part, they pretty much stopped reading.


Quote:
As long as you are not trying to commit fraud, you can do whatever you like to with your coins.

That was my take as well. A Google search for "coin melting law" turned up nothing. At best, the US Mint may or may not have a regulation or rule against it for pennies and nickels. Government agencies are empowered to create rules and regulations but whether or not those actually have the force of law is another question. One would think that any proposed rule or regulation would have to have congressional over-sight at some point, though. At least, one would hope that to be the case, else absolute tyranny could be established this way.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2011  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They actually made these for century's a key for travel across the European country side in the dark cold winter. Real ones bring big money, as I saw one sell on an auction show for 12 grand, and it had a crossbow with a silver tipped arrow....

No doubt that whole thing was started by undertakers who wanted something more valuable that lead to recover from dead bodies.
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2011  06:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As is often the case, the same thing may be covered by several laws.

Everyone seems to be focused on Title 18, Section 331 of the United States code.

US Code Title 31, Section 5111 states

(d)(1) The Secretary may prohibit or limit the exportation, melting, or treatment of United States coins when the Secretary decides the prohibition or limitation is necessary to protect the coinage of the United States.

(2) A person knowingly violating an order or license issued or regulation prescribed under paragraph (1) of this subsection, shall be fined not more than $10,000, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(3) Coins exported, melted, or treated in violation of an order or license issued or regulation prescribed, and metal resulting from the melting or treatment, shall be forfeited to the United States Government. The powers of the Secretary and the remedies available to enforce forfeitures are those provided in part II of subchapter C of chapter 75 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 \1\ (26 U.S.C. 7321 et seq.).
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hockingzig's Avatar
United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2011  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hockingzig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Fredd,I knew that one was the key but couldn't track it down. By the way Ed_B,I believe silver bullets are for werewolves,wooden stakes to the heart are for vampires. I could be wrong but I remember Lon Chaney being beaten with a silver=tipped cane resulting in his demise as a werewolf. We need to be careful with info accuracy,you wouldn't want to send some CCF member out in this dangerous world with the wrong tools for killing mythical monsters would you? Think of the liability attached to that!
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2011  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good call Hock, that is what the silver is for the werewolves, gotta have both angles covered however in the old Transylvania countryside....
Edited by Silverhawk74
06/10/2011 12:56 pm
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2011  12:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not to worry, Hock. They had it wrong back then. The beauty and purity of essence of silver will definitely be quite toxic to any Creature of Darkness. Whether they be werewolves, vampires, demons, etc., all will fall before the silver bullets of my mighty .41 magnum!
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