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 Replies: 12 / Views: 20,670 |
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Valued Member
United States
355 Posts |
...if even possible.
I'm aware of the coin grading scale(s) and have been practicing my grading. I can usually come up with a reasonable grade +/- 2 points of the general consensus when following along with threads in this sub-forum.
A number grade, say MS63, to me seems very specific. What doesn't seem as specific sometimes are terms like BU and AU -- especially on the ebays. They seem to get tossed around a lot.
BU
I was wondering if it is possible to compare BU coins to the grading scale somehow? E.g. if a coin is considered BU, is there a certain number grade which that coin must achieve for you to consider it BU?
Or is that not possible and the 'U' simply stands for uncirculated and the 'B' for brilliant and it's more of a description of how the coin was found as opposed to an actual grade? But if so, how do you judge if it's brilliant or not? Would a certain number grade or above be required to achieve the proper brilliance or is it just not possible. If not, let me ask you this. Could you ever have a BU coin that is graded VF20? Probably not, but it's probably very possible with a MS64 coin. I'd like to think some grades could never be considered BU and others probably would always be BU. So what is the line? And if a line is not possible what is the grey area?
AU
AU seems to have better definitions of what it actually is since it's part of the grading scale. For example:
AU-50 This coin has sharp legends and devices show only a trace of wear on the highest points. There must be at least half of the mint luster still present.
AU-55 A coin having less than a trace of wear on only the highest points of the design but no other defects and with most of its luster remaining. This coin also has great eye appeal.
AU-58 This coin is virtually uncirculated, except for minor wear marks on high points. Nearly all mint luster must be present, and it must have outstanding eye appeal.
That is very clear to me. But as for BU, I'm not so sure.
Would BU typically be >= MS/PF60 if AU covers 50 to 59?
Could you have a BU coin graded in the 50-59 range? If so, is it still actually BU?
I'm not sure if I'm attempting to compare Fahrenheit to Celsius or Fahrenheit to miles per hour.
Thanks.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1150 Posts |
My dealer rates any coin from MS60 to MS63 as BU. Anything beyond that is a 'Choice BU'.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
Would BU typically be >= MS/PF60 if AU covers 50 to 59? BU should never be used with a PF or PR grades (proof). Proof is a method of minting. BU applies to a different method - usually business strikes. Quote:
Could you have a BU coin graded in the 50-59 range? If so, is it still actually BU?
No. BU should never be used in describing AU (Almost Uncirculated) coins. BU is often used to describe any coin that is uncirculated and not certified by a third party grading service. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Judging by some of the questions you asked, I would say you need to learn what the meaning of "BU" truly is- Brilliant Uncirculated. That automatically disqualifies any circulated coin from being BU so MS60 would be would be the first line of separation. The brilliant part describes the luster so a coin should be very lustrous to be called "brilliant". An MS60 coin is technically uncirculated but MS60/61 coins are usually quite ugly with poor luster so they could not be truly called BU as well.
The main problem with using adjectival descriptors is that there is no hard and fast meaning like the Sheldon Scale. One person may call anything uncirculated a BU coin while another may only classify BU coins as those of MS65 and above. For me, MS60-62 is Unc, 63-65 is BU, and 65+ is Gem/Choice BU.
Edited by biokemist6
04/26/2011 3:49 pm
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Valued Member
United States
213 Posts |
Brilliant Uncirculated (BU) is a general term for a bright reflective coin, which was over used in the late 20th Century to mean any bright looking Uncirculated coin. However, in general it can be said, brilliancy (luster) within the ANA Grading System below MS-65 is variable, and MS-65 and above a requirement. Just substitute your "BU" (Brilliant Uncirculated) with "Uncirculated" MINT STATE Perfect Uncirculated (MS-70) Superlative Uncirculated (MS-67) Gem Uncirculated (MS-65) Choice Uncirculated (MS-63) Uncirculated (MS-60) The Danester |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19969 Posts |
BU is not a grade, it simply a way to describe a mint state coin without toning. I see the term misused over and over and over. To qualify, the coin must be bright, not toned or subdued. Any MS coin from 60 up can be termed BU as long as it meets the qualifications.
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Valued Member
United States
424 Posts |
I'll have to agree with biokemist as far as the grading scale in relation to the wording. And Thad as far as the luster/tone.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
Typically BU is MS 60 - 62, Choice BU is 63 or 64, and Gem BU is 65 or higher
More broadly, one could say BU is any MS coin but beyond 63 dealers usually add a choice or gem qualifier.
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Valued Member
 United States
355 Posts |
Thanks for the input guys. I was kind of expecting no exact answer but agree with what everyone's said.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3640 Posts |
There seems to be a lot of different terms being used
and they are often very confusing. I have to disagree with some of them.
BU should be used only on two grades. MS-63/64
Unc. would include all Unc.'s naturally (60-70) but Unc. is used for
MS-60,61,62
Then BU. Then Gem Unc. MS65/66, Choice Unc. MS-67/68/69
MS 70 is Perfect. This is the scale that I was taught and have been using for over 40 yrs. Maybe this is incorrect but I think it makes sense and takes some of the confusion out of these terms. Like Gem BU
or Choice BU etc. I have had a few discussions not on the grades but the order of the terms Gem and Choice. Take the Word Gem for instance.
You can have a Gem of a coin there then you could have a Choice coin.
Choice Gem seems to fit better than Gem choice if you see what I mean.
Even though these exact terms should not be used. This is to just illustrate the logic of which (Gem/Choice) is the higher grade. Listed below is the scale I use. I had copied it a while back and edited it somewhat after that. I have posted it on here before.
Poor - PO1
Fair - FR2
About Good - AG (3)
Good - G4
Good+ - G6
Very Good - VG8
Very Good+ - VG10
Fine - F12
Fine+ - F15
Very Fine - VF20
Very Fine+ - VF30
Extremely Fine - EF40
Extremely Fine+ - EF45
About Uncirculated - AU50
About Uncirculated + - AU53
About Uncirculated++ - AU55
Choice About Uncirculated - AU58
Uncirculated / Unc. - MS60 - MS61 - MS62
Brilliant Uncirculated / BU - MS63 - MS64
Gem Uncirculated -- MS65 - MS66
Choice Uncirculated - MS67 -- MS68 - MS69
Perfect Uncirculated - MS70
Proof - PR60-PR62
Brilliant Proof - PR63-PR64
Gem Proof -- PR65-PR66
Choice Proof - PR67-PR69
Perfect Proof - PR70
One could also add VF25 and EF35 (still used but not very often)
These terms below are also often used, but I do not like them. My opinion.
I think they may be misleading and or confusing. Also using an X to replace E (X-fine/EF)
Is used quite a bit.
Gem BU
Choice Gem Uncirculated
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
Indian, what is your source for those? My understanding is that in common numismatic language today BU is MS-60 to MS-62, Choice BU is MS-63 or MS-64, and Gem BU is MS-65 plus. A quick web search seemed to confirm: http://coins.about.com/od/coinsglos..._defined.htm |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3640 Posts |
Hi What I had known goes back even before wiki :) Well, way before the internet actually. I was trying to find that info but had no luck as of yet. I know I had it written down on paper also somewhere. Terms and usage can change I guess. I will however from now on just refer to the grade itself. 1 through 70. Except for maybe poor and fair. No one has any of those coins anyway, right :) However, if a I ever see Gem Bu FR-2 I might go off  I do also use the terms (mostly on Morgan dollars) Satin like, prooflike, DMPL and the like. Strange I never see other coins with that description. Only morgans. |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 20,670 |
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Posted 04/26/2011 3:05 pm
