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 Replies: 10 / Views: 2,129 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
509 Posts |
I realize this subject has had several in depth threads previous to this but I thought this might be an update of interest to those of you who are following it. Abject apologies if it's redundant.
Resolution of the legal positions of the U.S. Mint and the descendants of Israel Switt over the fate of 10 genuine 1933 double eagle coins moved one step closer to trial on Oct. 28 (2010) with release of a 20-page decision by U.S. District Court Judge Legrome Davis Jr., from the federal court on the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. A trial would occur in late 2011 or in 2012.
Numismatist and author Roger W. Burdette resigned from the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee on March 1 (2011) so he could testify as an expert witness for the Langbord family, who are seeking recovery of ten 1933 Saint-Gaudens gold double eagles from the U.S. government.
According to the Langbords' pretrial memorandum, Burdette will provide expert testimony regarding "(1) archival records from the Philadelphia Mint; (2) Mint practices; and (3) the various ways 1933 Double Eagles could have left the Philadelphia Mint." Burdette will provide more than 70 pieces of evidence to support his testimony, according to the Langbord's pretrial memorandum.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
817 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1081 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1064 Posts |
Good post, always to hera baout these beauties. If I could just find one...
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I really doubt they will ever be returned to the family because if they do the 1 that they made legal just for the fact there were records stating it was granted permission to leave the country by King Farouk will be worth allot less because the reason it brought so much money is because it was going to be the ONLY 1 legal to own. If he didn't have the papers showing that the Government allowed it to be exported that one would have never been legalized either. I understand this is a unpopular way to look at it within the collector community because we all hate to see a coin destroyed or confiscated but I still believe legally they do not have a leg to stand on no matter who testifies on their behalf
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
509 Posts |
Quote:
JackB Quote:
If I could just find one... Got a great LOL outta that one. Wish I could too! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
509 Posts |
The essence of Judge Davis' ruling seems to be "the government now bears the burden of proof that it is the rightful owner." That sounds quite a bit different to me than proving they were stolen. i.e. caught in the act or caught with your pants down. Thievery has not been shown; simply presumed and alleged, due to the lack of documentation concerning the means of egress from the confines of the US Mint. Hence the trial.
Trying to put it into perspective, Burdette has stated he will provide more than 70 pieces of evidence to support his assertions that the coins were NOT illegally gained. The US Government on the other hand will produce evidence that it has NO evidence to support the coins were released legally or otherwise. Did I lose my receipt somewhere? And equally, on the other side, where is that dad-gum bill of sale?
Shux, Bryan, I as a collector (newbie at that) agree with your mindset and would also like to see these coins released into the numismatic world for the enjoyment of all of us as opposed to being squirreled away in some government vault somewhere--hauled out on rare occasions for obscure and poorly announced public viewings. But I have to disagree with your belief (your assumption in my view) that the coins were illegally gotten. It has not yet been proven nor dis-proven as is evidenced by the continuing litigation.
I just want the good guys to win! What are these coins worth? Untold millions. The one "legal" coin (Farouk's) sold for over $7 million--highest in history for any single coin. But WHY does the Mint continue to pursue this? The value is nothing but a pittance to them comparatively speaking. They deal in billions. THAT is what P.O's me the most. Pursuing this issue since 2004, they must have their pound of flesh.
What deceptions are here and who is presenting them?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
let me give you an example:
The mint strikes 20,000 2012 Dimes in November of 2011. They can not be released until a certain date in 2012 so they put them away in a locked cabinet so on the date they can just be brought out and sold at the mint's Gift shop. The guy at the counter is a friend of yours and knows you collect Dimes and opens the cabinet and gets you a few of them and you exchange the dimes in your pocket for them. In December 2011 Obama says they are not going to strike any dimes in 2012 and all the ones that have already been minted should be destroyed. Your Dimes are now worth a small fortune did the mint employee that sold them to you acquire them legally? You did nothing wrong but they were still stolen because they were not legally released by the mint for purchase yet, the mint employee sold stolen property (which is against the law by the way). That is exactly what happened with these coins, they were not ever supposed to leave that locked cabinet and even though the guy purchasing the coins didn't do anything illegal (except for purchasing stolen items) the guy behind the counter did steal the coins as their owner (The US Government) never gave up possession or said it was ok to transfer possession to anyone else. I understand they may win their case because some documents may have gotten lost or what ever that would prove these were never supposed to leave the mint and the only way they could have ever done so was in a manner that was illegal but it still doesn't change the fact in my mind these were never supposed to leave the mint and the Govt never gave up their possession to anyone for someone else to acquire them. If someone had stolen your car it is still your car because you never gave up the right to own the car and if it is found it will be returned to you because you are the legal owner. AS I said I know this isn't a popular way to see this case but it is the only way anyone that actually understand what happened could possibly see it because its not even like the 1974 aluminum cent where they have documents showing they handed them out to a few people and then asked for them back at a later date (and even those are "illegal to own" as far as I know), none of these were ever supposed to leave that locked cabinet
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Pillar of the Community
United States
509 Posts |
Point well taken Bryan. Thanks for your perspective.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Except that the scenario is more like they struck the dimes and sent some of them to the gift shop in Feb 2012, and then in Mar 20120 Obama decided they weren't going to make any dime. So they tell the gift shop to send all their dimes back, count them and declare that all of the dimes that should be here are here. (The government DID send 1933 double eagles to the cash office where it would have been possible for them to have been exchanged. This is per some of the records Roger has found.)
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Valued Member
United States
97 Posts |
Great topic
Hope the family gets the gold back and sells them as the air time and story only helps the coin collecting communities popularity lost to some degree in this economy.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,129 |
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Posted 05/12/2011 2:44 pm
