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Question About 1765 Gunzburg Mint Burgau, Austria Thaler

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 2 / Views: 2,633Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2011  10:32 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi again folks,
Another recent purchase.

The size is correct and the weight is spot on at 28.1 grams. What I am not sure about is how the SC below the bust is represented. On other examples I've found online the SC is spaced wider and the dots are more to the bottom of the letters.
There are some other variations in the design details as well, but it seems like every one I've looked at (including slabbed examples) does have design variations in style and position of details.
Also, there are fine parallel striations that look like die tooling marks that are struck onto some parts of the design, mostly the outer lettering on the reverse but also at the bottom left of the shield and at left of tail. (see close-up pics).

I've also not been able to find any re-strikes of this type, nor any references that there are re-strikes of them.

Would love to hear your opinions.

Thanks! =)


Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Question-About-1765-Gunzburg-Mint-Burgau,-Austria-Thaler

Edited by Numismat
09/12/2011 10:51 pm
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2011  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A few observations.

First, the dies used to make the originals were cut individually so spacings would be expected to vary die to die.

Second the groves are adjustment marks. The planchet was weighed BEFORE being struck and if overweight - they were filed across one or both faces to get the weight correct. Deep adjustment marks were NOT always struck out completely by the foirce of the strike. They are a good sign on an old screw press era coin.

Third, I am not aware of restrikes of earlier date MTT coins.

My final observation is a cautionary one. Do you know the source? I am bothered by a couple things here - the discoloration that looks like chemical aging, the odd compressive line in the dentils which looks like some sort of collar impression and the small dots on the coin surface. I am not familiar enough with the die making techniques used in Austria in the 18th century to be sure but it looks odd enough that I would want to research striking methods.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2011  12:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much for lending your extensive knowledge Swamperbob.
The line across the rim is something I saw on most of the examples I compared it to. They were all auction records, some slabbed by NGC and some raw.
I did notice the very fine bubbling on the surface when looking at it under magnification. Since we can safely rule out the coin being cast, I don't think much of it other than a die that simply was not cleaned often enough. There is also a visible slag inclusion above the and G in BURG.
The dark spots looked suspicious to me as well. But, after looking at it under 100X magnifcation I saw that the surface of the dark spots was very random and uneven in its nature, quite different from the typical applied toning or chemical aging which has a smoother appearance as it sits atop the surface.

I don't know the source for sure, it came from a guy who basically posts an ad in the Yellow Pages for US silver and sells off any foreign silver he comes across in bulk. Over the years I've found quite a few gems among the coins purchased from this particular dealer.
Thanks again! =)
Edited by Numismat
09/13/2011 02:15 am
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