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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,644 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1205 Posts |
About a year and a half ago, I sent B.J. Neff of Traildies.com 2 1921-S Morgan dollars, already Vammed out as the 1921-S V-1L and 1Y, both with what Leroy V. Allen calls " Raised lines from denticle edges into field above STATES due to die wear and slightly tilted die."...B.J. attributed these as Trail Dies, and, are one of the earliest coinage found(not sure what coin holds the record for the EARLIEST known Traildie)...anyway, I'm always hoping the Morgan Collector's keep hunting for more with possible Traildie lines...most likely, they will be found on more 21-s coins, but, one never knows when they may appear...so, the Morgans now have a dual attribution, which is pretty neat. The 1L is a TD-1921S-100DER-001T , and the 1Y is a TD-1921S-100DER-002T. Thanks Calvin G.  Edited by ilikeikes
09/28/2011 3:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3179 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
It's going to take a lot more than B.J. Neff declaring it to be so for me to believe that this phenomenon, known on only two San Francisco dies, constitutes "die trails." Quoted from traildies.com: Quote:
TRAILS - This term is used to describe dies that have a series of parallel, tapered lines, in either one or two directions. We can start with the fact that the lines on 1L and 1Y are not parallel; they radiate out from the denticles at differing angles. You can see this in the plate image posted above. |
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Pillar of the Community
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3076 Posts |
WELL said SD,, the trail dies phenomium has been introduced to this and other forums.....its simply extreme die wear..
the last of the dies life....which some are trying to relate into something more...and EXOTIC and colletible coins....
These coins show what is considered "trail dies",, yet they fail to represent the "REST of the story" meaning the proof of the details of prior coin errors, or vams as they have tried to introduce themselves into the Morgan series...yes this its true some Morgans have the attributes of the supposed "trail dies" criteria... last stages of the dies life. yet they don't include the dies "prior history" in which the vams study and history have been guided by...
If I looked at a horses rear end but never looked at its front....how can one know what your looking at?
Trail dies are one such thing.... look at the last possible deterioration of the coin in its die life...
NOW MAKE IT, PROBAGATE it into something specail..
INVENT new wealth....Trail dies.....
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Trail Dies are an interesting phenomenon, one which I've not studied in depth and therefore feel unqualified to opine regarding their origin or nature. What I understand of them, though, completely precludes these 1921's from inclusion in their ranks. Here's a closeup of one of the 1L's I've owned:  Note the strength and depth of the lines. Further note that they run all the way up and into the denticles; it's my understanding that Trail Dies begin at the edge of the letter/device and are not found as a part of the device itself. As near as I can tell, these two Morgan varieties are the only pre-Modern Trail Die listings. All the other US coin listings are from the era of single-squeeze hubbing. There are older foreign coins listed, including a fascinating 1869 Uruguay 4 Centesimos displaying classic Trail Die behavior as well as one of the most radical RPD's I've ever seen. Certainly food for thought, but not where the 1921-S's are concerned. |
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Pillar of the Community
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2669 Posts |
Indeed. While the phenomenon is interesting, I'll personally continue to only note them in the context of a die's life cycle when trying to determine a variety or die stage. At least until we hear more about it; some person saying something on a web site doesn't make it numismatic fact.. and claiming everything is a 'trail die' when some do not meet the supposed criteria does not help.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I have a few Morgans that exhibit trail die effects...yet the most notable coin series I find that has them all over the place is the early bust half dollars....its effects are seen in many of them....Still not something thats going to take over the morgan series...
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
That's not a trail die effect; it's just the result of a severely-worn die. You see it all the time on 1921-S Morgan dates and rim letters. And, as you mention, Bust Halves are notorious for it.
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Pillar of the Community
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1205 Posts |
I'm sure Mr. Neff will want to add to this interesting debate!
Calvin
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,644 |
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Posted 09/29/2011 02:13 am
