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Anna Del Gratia 1714 - What Is It?

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New Member

United Kingdom
3 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  1:51 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add klkbloke to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi All,

Apologies if this is an inappropriate place to ask but I've recently come across a coin collection from my childhood.

I have one coin which I know nothing about that I was hoping you may be able to help me with - it may even be a fake.

The coin is gold in colour and about an inch in diameter.

One one side it has sort of four shields with the following text ...ET-HIB-REG-1714-MAG-BRI-FR
One the other side it has a female head with the following text ...
... ANNA DEL GRATIA.

Condition is not great. Someone has put a hole it in to wear if from a chain.

Does anyone have any idea what it is? Where it is from? How common is it?
Ashamed to ask, but what it's worth?

Thanks All,

Martin.
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure how much it's worth, but sounds like you have a Brittish silver penny of Queen Anne.

Here's a snippet from Wikipedia:

quote:

Anglo-Scottish Union
William III was succeeded in 1702 by Mary's younger sister, Anne. During Anne's reign the kingdoms of England and Scotland were united in 1707 (see Acts of Union 1707), to form what is usually referred to as the Kingdom of Great Britain.

Despite having had ten pregnancies, none of Anne's children survived, and the Stuart dynasty died with her in 1714. In accordance with the Act of Settlement 1701 the crown passed to the Protestant descendants of Sophia, Electress of Hanover, in the form king George I.

Anne's reign produced silver pennies in 1703, 1705, 1706, 1708, 1709, 1710, and 1713. The obverse of the coins show her left-facing bust with the inscription ANNA DEI GRATIA, while the reverse shows the crowned "I" and (1703) MAG BR FRA ET HIB REG 1703, (1705,6) MAG BR FR ET HIB REG, or (1708-13) MAG BRI FR ET HIB REG.

New Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add klkbloke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks for that. I didn't think to check wikipedia.

Two thoughts...
- Why is my coin gold coloured?
- Why is dated 1714 when the wiki extract lists them up to 1713?

Is it a sort of decorative fake coin?
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That could be a possibility. I do not know anything about this series to help you further, sorry :(
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scoutjim99's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scoutjim99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you could post a photo or even a scan we might be able to get a better idea. Thanks JIM
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it looks like this:
Anna-Del-Gratia-1714---What-Is-It?
...then it could well be a British gold coin, either a guinea or half-guinea (I think the guineas are "about an inch" across). That picture is from Tony Clayton's website of UK coins. Even holed, a genuine guinea is going to be more than worth its weight in gold to a collector.

It could, of course, be a fake. Even if it is, it could still be real gold - a "jewellers fake". I'd suggest taking it to a jeweller for an opinion - they can also do some testing to see if it's real gold.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I completely missed "this coin is gold in color" part of his original message :)
Rest in Peace
Gary Burke's Avatar
United States
3730 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2006  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gary Burke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
klkbloke, Welcome to the forum.

Hope you will post often.

New Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2006  02:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add klkbloke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone.

Sap - that is exactly what it looks like. The diameter is almost exactly 25mm (~1 inch) so could it be a two guinea coin?

Thanks to the welcome. The coin collection from my childhood contains probably 3-400 coins so I expect to have a few more question in the future. Sadly this is the only gold coin but there are still plenty I'd like to identify.

I'll try find a coin specialist to take a look sometime after christmas. It does seem to weight a fair bit for it's size so I'm hoping it is gold.

I'll post some pics when I can if anyone is interested.

Thanks.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2006  03:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, I'm back home with my trusty reference books. The guinea is 25mm, the half 21mm and the double 31mm, so it sounds like a guinea...

First thing to double-check: does it look exactly like the one pictured in my post above? Pay particular attention to what's in the angles between the four shields... is it sceptres, like on this coin, or little flowery things (roses and fleur-de-lys)? The reason I'm asking is, that English silver shillings were much the same size (25mm) as gold guineas, with a very similar design - the difference being what I just outlined. As you can imagine, shillings were frequently gold-plated to try to pass as guineas. If yours has sceptres, then we can at least rule out a gilded shilling.

The Krause catalogue (2002 ed.) lists the 1714 guinea at $125 in VG (the lowest stated grade); it's not a particularly scarce date, but still worth more than bullion value at the time. The price of gold has gone up considerably since then, which will proportionally increase the value of your coin.

The best test you can do "at home" is to check the weight as accurately as possible; A guinea should weigh 8.35 grams; even with the hole, it shouldn't weigh too much less than this. Shillings, for example, weigh only 6.02 grams.

Hope all this helps.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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pattiewhack's Avatar
Canada
1152 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2006  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pattiewhack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pics please when possible!!!
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2006  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
klkbloke - speaking as a collector of counterfeits - please do not do anything that might damage a contemporary counterfeit. I would AVOID jewelers like a plague because their tests can damage the surfaces. All an acid test or the "rub" test detects is what carat the surface gold is.

But with a drilled coin, you have a perfect opportunity to determine exactly what you have with ZERO added damage. These tests are listed in order by degree of difficulty.

1. Weigh the coin accurately - gold coins were made to very high tolerances and the loss of metal due to the drill hole can be calculated very accurately.
2. Examine the drill hole using a binocular microscope - look for a seam or color change. Remember that a "white" core could indicate a Platinum forgery which would be worth as much or more than an intact original.
3. Determine the Specific Gravity - here again there is a very little variation in the density of coin gold from Great Britain. Jewelry counterfeits and Circulating counterfeits will have different SGs because they were made for different purposes.
4. Locate someone with an XRF testing apparatus. If there is any chance you have a "non-gold" forgery this test will likely determine when or where it was made.

Finally, if there is any chance it is a fake get in tough with me.

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pattiewhack's Avatar
Canada
1152 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2006  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pattiewhack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope its real! Or one of those "'white' core" Platinum forgeries Swamperbob is talking about!
Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2006  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add josie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it is real fine to EF 300 to 2000 pounds british

One variety I guess their is no middle bar on GRATIA fine to EF 600 to 3000
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