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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
Gyrene7483 I would have walked out of that shop too! I have a low tolerance for such disrespect -- and I get crabbier about it with each passing year.
But about the coin... does the US code cover representations of the flag or just the flag? Is a photo of the flag to be treated the same as an actual flag? I guess I just always thought that images of the flag were somehow different.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Liberty is not a person it is a concept and is shown as an allegorical representation of a person. I see it as the concept or the idea of LIBERTY being "wrapped up" with the United States as represented by the flag. It is a symbolic union of the two, not clothing.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7840 Posts |
Keep the interpretations (opinions) coming...more fuel for the fire in class Wednesday night.
Edited by oih82w8
11/21/2011 10:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
More fuel for the fire. I see some are irritated by flag clothing, so, how do you then feel about the thousands of car dealerships that purposely surround their yard with 10-50 large flags with the sole purpose of attracting car sales. They are generally not illuminated at night which they MUST be and only ONE flag is lawfully allowed! I personally find this way more offensive than flags on clothes...Just my 2 cents..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
 Not offended by flag print clothing just the attitude that SOMETIMES accompanies it.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
oih82w8 Class is on Wednesday....well, here's a question to bring up. Why is it that a whole bunch of people haven't a clue about flag protocol? I honestly don't remember where I learned anything about it -- grade school? with 1893-- I find it offensive to see US flags used disrespectfully by businesses. And to that I would add, I also find Veterans Day sales disrespectful.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
I learned flag protocol when I was in the cub scouts. On the other hand the flag is merely a symbol and I am quite tolerant of "direspect" to a symbol. Likewise I will not pledge my allegiance to a symbol. To the country it represents yes, but not to the symbol itself.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I understand the Flag Code and agree with it. But I also understand the Historical perspective of the times. From Independence to the early 20th Century it was considered the height of patriotism to use the Flag as a decoration. Unfortunately, a lot of those decorations became soiled and hence disrespectful. It was this kind of abuse that led to the present Flag code. The thing to remember is that you are judging yesterdays standards on todays norms. But back in the day, having Lady Liberty draped in the Flag was highly Patriotic.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
There are a couple of the "occupy" supporters in my class who brought up the Walker/ASE flag draped figure.
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Moderator
 United States
189767 Posts |
Quote:
Liberty is not a person it is a concept and is shown as an allegorical representation of a person. I see it as the concept or the idea of LIBERTY being "wrapped up" with the United States as represented by the flag. It is a symbolic union of the two, not clothing. I agree. Had George Washington been wearing the flag, I would think of it as inappropriate. Also, I see a difference between the flag being depicted on clothing versus the flag being used as clothing. |
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Valued Member
United States
59 Posts |
The 50c was Weinman's and he did not portray LIBERTY wearing the flag as clothing. I held his original letter to Mint Director in my hands in Sept. 2011: Portrayed my design as "....enveloped in the folds of the stars & stripes....". As far as the law: you are breaking the law if you use a genuine flag to manufacture clothing...a shirt, trousers, skirt, hat, ect.. MacNeils 25c I have not seen his personal comment.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
MacNeil's quarter used drapery not a US flag on LIBERTY.
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Valued Member
United States
294 Posts |
Interesting discussion. I also learned about protocols for the flag during my scounting years, and not through any formal education, although we may have touched upon it during a history or civics class in grade school. As far as the Walking Liberty design, the coin was introduced in 1916, but (according to this web site: http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#USFC ) there were no rules governing display of the US Flag until after 1923. So, technically, Weinman's design violated nothing. Anybody else remember the 1960's, when various forms of desecration of the flag were popular forms of protest against the Vietnam War? Along with burning, people would actually sew the US flag to the seats of their pants as a form of protest. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court later ruled that these forms of protest are protected under the First Amendment, as the flag is a symbol of the government. The code states you cannot make clothing out of the flag. It says nothing about replicating or displaying the flag on clothing. How many public service workers display a flag on the uniform? How about Olympic athletes who wrap themselves in a flag after winning? Is this desecration, or patriotism? 9/11 caused a huge wave of patriotism. They couldn't make flags or flag symbols fast enough to meet demand. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
I think there is a difference between wearing a flag as a piece of clothing and draping the flag over yourself as a show of patriotic fervor. Although I cannot envision any time that would be appropriate for an average Joe like myself to do so, I understand if Lady Liberty does. What about Olympic athletes who drape themselves in the flag after a gold medal performance? Obviously they don't do it as a show of disrespect but rather as a show of pride in their country and what it represents.
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Valued Member
United States
294 Posts |
Quote:
I think there is a difference between wearing a flag as a piece of clothing and draping the flag over yourself as a show of patriotic fervor. Although I cannot envision any time that would be appropriate for an average Joe like myself to do so, I understand if Lady Liberty does. What about Olympic athletes who drape themselves in the flag after a gold medal performance? Obviously they don't do it as a show of disrespect but rather as a show of pride in their country and what it represents. Please don't misunderstand me, I do not believe it is wrong to wrap oneself in the flag like that, or display a flag on clothing, or wearing flag-themed garments. The OP's original question was regarding the use of the flag as clothing on coins, and how this fits with the Flag Code. |
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Posted 11/20/2011 11:03 pm
