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You Vs. NGC - Test Your Grading Skills #1

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Pillar of the Community
United States
745 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Penny4Me to your friends list
AU58 because of black stuff on coin...what do we win?
Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list
I am guessing MS-65.
Valued Member
474 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FlipOfACoin to your friends list
@ Penny4Me: What you will win...... absolutely nothing, beyond bragging rights and the satisfaction that your grading skills are on par (or better) with those doing the grading at NGC.

This is also a learning exercise for me, to see how others approach grading a coin that is difficult to 'see.' In a weird way, it is helping me to learn as well.
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917 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LincolnGuy to your friends list
I'm not any good at grading dimes but I would like to say I LIKE IT :) I love toned coins and dont care what they look like! Nice dime!
Pillar of the Community
United States
3283 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list
MS 65
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474 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2012  10:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FlipOfACoin to your friends list
As promised, here is the actual grade: NGC MS66FT
You-Vs.-NGC---Test-Your-Grading-Skills-#1
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2012  10:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list
I'm glad the tpgs are getting this stuff put into plastic and away from collectors. I'd be ashamed to have that coin in my case.
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474 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2012  2:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FlipOfACoin to your friends list

Quote:
I'm glad the tpgs are getting this stuff put into plastic and away from collectors. I'd be ashamed to have that coin in my case.


I am sorry, I don't quite understand what you are saying by "getting the coins out of the hands of collectors and into slabs?" Why would you be ashamed to have this coin?

I am not 'questioning' you biggfredd, I am just trying to learn.
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United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2012  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
I sense sarcasam from biggFredd in that comment, though some people just don't like heavily toned dark coins, to each their own I suppose.
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23522 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2012  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
I will not attempt to speak for biggfredd, who has been doing this professionally for 40 years. What I will do, though, is offer an opinion as to how someone might think this way:

Mercs tend to be rather strictly-graded, in keeping with what seems to me to be a pattern of "the physically-smaller the coin, the tougher the grading." That may be a generality I'm guilty of getting wrong.

But either way, MS66 is a grade at which eye appeal and strike must certainly factor in. The obverse toning on this coin deserves consideration from that standard, and given that it's a relatively-fresh slab design, it likely looked like that when it was slabbed. It's not exactly "attractive" toning. Furthermore, the striations through the color on the obverse, and the obvious polishing lines on the reverse, indicate a die of....suboptimal condition.

These two taken together ought by right to have a bearing on a coin to which you're assigning the term "Gem." I can easily see how someone experienced in this issue might believe that the maximum-possible grade for an otherwise near-pristine coin like this might be 65.

Which brings me to the third point. Given the color obstructing detail on the obverse, and the very small time window in which a grader gets to look at the coin, can we be sure that details which might lessen the grade are obscured by the toning and were overlooked?
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 Posted 01/22/2012  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
I'm not going to edit, but offer a second post with my own personal opinion. I didn't offer a grade here initially because I'm not comfortable with my skills on this issue yet. I'd probably have suggested 65, with a strong caveat about the obverse color getting in the way, based on the marks I see under the top torch bands and in the leaves to the left of that. Furthermore, I suspect the field area under AMERICA might be relevant if you're looking at it under a loupe.
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United States
167 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2012  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ibab to your friends list
Looks about right for tge grade based on those I've seen. The toning I've ween on ones like that are from the coins on the end of the roll.
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 Posted 01/22/2012  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FlipOfACoin to your friends list
Thanks SuperDave I have been banging my head on the wall trying to figure out what caused the striations on the coin reverse.

In my VERY uneducated opinion, I would have given the coin a MS64-MS65 because I do not see luster SCREAMING at me and I really can't see anything under the toning. To me, the striations are very distracting...
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 Posted 01/22/2012  11:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
The striations are die polishing. Common in every series, less-visible in some than in others. I personally lean towards a "one-size-fits-all" model of coin grading, but it plainly doesn't fit given the relative prominence of these minor defects in a coin or a die. This kind of die polishing is common with Morgans, but much less visible due to the sheer size of the coin. In a Merc, it's a focal point whether you want it to be or not.

Even if you consider the coin against the narrower standard of "the best that mint could do under their own circumstances," where one can make allowances for a New Orleans Morgan, this one deserves harder scrutiny.
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2012  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list

Quote:
I am sorry, I don't quite understand what you are saying by "getting the coins out of the hands of collectors and into slabs?" Why would you be ashamed to have this coin?

There's toning and there's tarnish. Sting is in the hand of the bee holder, but to me, this is just ugly tarnish.

By slobbing it, it will get grabbed for its grade, and thus removed from "circulation".
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