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1933 Double Eagle Special

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Valued Member
United States
227 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2012  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add donkrx to your friends list

Quote:
basebal21: Donk at this point they would probably have to sell them just to try and attempt to recover the investigative costs and still probably fall short.


True, but even more reason why what they did was really dumb (according to the MSNBC article). They kinda deserve it because let's face it they got greedy and really ambitious: they wanted to clear the coins for public auction because they knew they would get more money that way. So they rolled the dice in order to fight an uphill battle (an expensive one) instead of taking what probably would have been at least a few million under the table. I understand high risk high reward but come on, this isn't a battle that you can reasonably expect to win.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2012  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list
Donk I'm sure they thought they had a good chance after the other one, but it was definitely a big risk. I still think they didnt come forward with all of them they have.

I know JMK doesn't want to accuse anyone who wasnt proven to have taken them and I agree, but for the sake of argument lets say he did take the coins, after seeing how easy it was to swap I have a hard time believing it was only a one time thing.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3640 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2012  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list
Thanks again Mr. Roosevelt. It's all your fault anyway.
Been going downhill ever since.
Think I'm going to melt all of my roo's.
Ugly dimes anyway.
Also, would not even surprise me that the Ten
are just knockoffs.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2012  02:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
Also, would not even surprise me that the Ten
are just knockoffs.


I do believe mint officials verified them as real, so if they were knockoffs I need the name and number of the person who made them
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2012  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list
yeah they were authenticated. The family actually sent the coins to the government for authenticated and when they called them in to let them know their findings thats when they told them they were real but wasn't getting them back. They told them they had already sent them to Fort Knox

Quote:
Just found another interesting fact about the 7.5 million dollar double eagle. It was stored in the vaults in the WTC and was moved to fort knox just weeks before the terrible attacks on 9-11.

The webpage I posted on page 2 gave that information about the coin
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2012  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list
Bryan must have missed that part on your link. Seems like just about everything interesting that could have happened to that coin did
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2012  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list
Basebal21; I am all for hypothesising! I'm all for saying "what if". I'm all for a good detective story where the facts are laid out, like Bryan has done for us. I'm all for saying "it could have happened" this way or that way.

I mean; hey, I was a Detective! I love this stuff. I'm all for investigative writings and theories.

Lol, I'm just the guy that does the voice over at the beginning of the show..."all suspects are innocent until proven guilty...."

No way do I want people to think I am against free speech or investigative work/writings!

Joe
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2012  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list
Jmk I don't think anyone thought that you were. I do also love hearing all the different theories
Valued Member
United States
227 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2012  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add donkrx to your friends list

Quote:
basebal21 Donk I'm sure they thought they had a good chance after the other one, but it was definitely a big risk. I still think they didnt come forward with all of them they have.

I doubt it - either they would come forward with all of them or just one. What would you do if you had them - why risk even half of these coins when you know that you cant prove how you got them? Why even risk a few? If you're going to test the waters you might as well risk the minimum with just one, and then deal with the others later.

First of all though, they shouldn't have even thought that the Farouk coin set any kind of precedent for them and their coins. That coin was seized even though it was originally GIVEN away by the government as a gift! They still wanted it destroyed very badly. Only after a lot of resistance did they eventually legalize it... and the only reason was that they knew the coin was obtained fairly. It's clearly a very different case, for very relevant reasons.

I'm not saying who I think should get the coins, I'm just saying that this family should have realized they were going to have to prove how they got them. You have something that was created by the government, locked in a secure facility the whole time, and then later ordered by the government to be completely destroyed. In this specific situation it's just really hard to argue that it's actually legitimately yours when you can't prove it. You can't just say "BUT THEY'RE MINE!"... lol

Edit: typo
Edited by donkrx
06/23/2012 3:10 pm
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2012  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
I doubt it - either they would come forward with all of them or just one. What would you do if you had them - why risk even half of these coins when you know that you cant prove how you got them? Why even risk a few? If you're going to test the waters you might as well risk the minimum with just one, and then deal with the others later.


It would all depend on how many I had. If I had two Id come forward with 1. If I had 15 I probably would try with 10 to get a the HUGE amount of money they bring and keep a couple or 1 or 2 just in case its denied.


Quote:
First of all though, they shouldn't have even thought that the Farouk coin set any kind of precedent for them and their coins. That coin was seized even though it was originally GIVEN away by the government as a gift! They still wanted it destroyed very badly. Only after a lot of resistance did they eventually legalize it... and the only reason was that they knew the coin was obtained fairly. It's clearly a very different case, for very relevant reasons.


Im sure they knew it was a risk, but with a potential of 15-20+ million if you win, its definitely worth the risk. The higher the reward the bigger the risk will take and the potential gain here is huge. I know a lot of us say we would have just kept them all, but unless youre already rich once one got legalized it did set a precedent for the coins being allowed. Its hard to just sit on potential millions if you dont already have millions.


Quote:
I'm not saying who I think should get the coins, I'm just saying that this family should have realized they were going to have to prove how they got them. You have something that was created by the government, locked in a secure facility the whole time, and then later ordered by the government to be completely destroyed. In this specific situation it's just really hard to argue that it's actually legitimately yours when you can't prove it. You can't just say "BUT THEY'RE MINE!"... lol


I dont think it was ever in question who the coins belonged to, the question was whether or not the coins should be allowed to exist at all where ownership wouldnt matter.

But like I said above I'm sure the family knew that it was a risk they were taking, but with the potential outcome Id say it was definitely worth a shot. At the very least I'm sure they kept 1 as a family keep sake
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
That coin was seized even though it was originally GIVEN away by the government as a gift!

It was NOT given away, it was purchased by Farouk from a dealer and an export license was applied for just as they would have done, and HAD done for every other US gold coin he had purchased here. Since it was a US gold coin dated 1933 or earlier the license was basically just a rubber stamp job.
Rest in Peace
United States
3039 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismo to your friends list
Just saw that show today. Lotsa interesting info in it.
Valued Member
United States
227 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add donkrx to your friends list

Quote:
It was NOT given away, it was purchased by Farouk from a dealer and an export license was applied for just as they would have done, and HAD done for every other US gold coin he had purchased here. Since it was a US gold coin dated 1933 or earlier the license was basically just a rubber stamp job.

OK, I stand corrected, I think I read that in the MSNBC article. Now I can see why the government wanted it back.

Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list
Num really was a great show. Wish I had recorded it
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigAppleBucky to your friends list
NY Times article today.

"World's most valuable coin".
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-in-a-vault/

For 10 months, the world's most valuable coin sat wrapped in plastic on a folding chair in a little cagelike compartment behind a bright blue door at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. It was only a step or two away from billions of dollars' worth of neatly stacked bars of gold bullion.

On Monday, a man in a dark suit stashed the coin in his briefcase and coolly walked out of the Fed's heavily guarded limestone-and-sandstone building, a couple of blocks from the New York Stock Exchange in Lower Manhattan. He nodded politely to the guards on the front steps of the Fed. They did not stop him.

The man with the briefcase, David N. Redden, an auction-house executive, was not pulling off a heist. He was taking the coin on a 6.7-mile ride to the New-York Historical Society on Central Park West.

**

Rest of the piece is at the link.
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