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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,108 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2077 Posts |
Actually on a second look, they are a bit too parallel for a print. They may have hit the die with a stone or file to fix some damage.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2759 Posts |
Could be N-19: look up several pictures of the reverses of this one to see if the 'heavy diagonal lines at the E in ONE' are similar to yours.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2077 Posts |
Yup, they sure do. Yours are actually more pronounced than the example on the book. Those only extend a tiny bit above the E.
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Valued Member
 United States
386 Posts |
This is a poor pic of the obverse 9sorry about the lighting, I just can't get it right now). About the date. The light in this pic is a bit confusing. All four numbers have something around the edges. One person told me it looks like something is under the date. Another said it's junk (dirt, etc...). I believe it's junk:  I don't have any books on Large Cents that show what you are looking at. Do you have a link to a pic showing the lines? What was the reason they attributed for the lines? Edited by sjh241
08/10/2012 1:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2077 Posts |
There is a characteristic line crossing the 1 in 51. It's short, but it looks like a bit of it shows on yours as bumps on either side.
Couldn't find any auction links that show the characteristics of yours. Many were sold in lots, so no pics. BTW, this is an R-3 variety, so I'd hang on to it. Not super valuable, but better than R-2. Of course there are 45 varieties in 1851, so how scarce could scarce really be!
BTW, thanks Robuddo for spotting this. My attention span is short. Would have lost interest at N-9.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2077 Posts |
Oh, and about the lines, it looks like a file, which doesn't make sense. The only time the die would be soft enough to be filed was before it was hardened. If that were the case, every die state would have it. The only thing I can figure is that they softened it to fix it and then rehardened. Seems like it would have been easier to give it a quick grind to clean it up. No heat treat required.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
N-19 those lines are diagnostic for the variety except in the latest states. Yours appears to be a mid state piece.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2077 Posts |
Conder- Does that mean that the marks were there when they first made the die and then ground them off later?
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New Member
United States
1 Posts |
What about the possibility of the planchet itself having the lines before it was struck?
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
Well, someone cleaning the die with a tool and leaving those lines was one of the theories we had. That seems to be where this piece is headed.
The other theory, which was less likely, was that this coin was struck in another coins planchet/die etc... (I don't know the right terminology). So we looked for coins with the same or similar mm dimensions such as half dollars and looked for lines, rays, etc... We saw a possibility with the half dollar but the rays did not appear in 1851, only a few years later. Really didn't find any other coin with these lines from the same year, so we struck down that idea.
I'm interested like OldSkool to understand the history of this variety. It's from when they made the die? It's a gouge from trying to clean the die?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Looks like a die clash to me! (Liberty's hair?)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2077 Posts |
Sheba
The known examples have the lines at the same angle and location, so for them to be on the planchet is unlikely.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2077 Posts |
oih82w8- I think clashes are field to field and the edges of the details make the mark. Think the details would be too deep to touch. Could be that a clash is the reason they needed to fix it up, though.
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
Are their known die-clash varieties for this year? If it was the reason, it would be a nice bit of history to own both of those coins for this year.
I really need to invest in those books you bought.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
Does that mean that the marks were there when they first made the die and then ground them off later? The lines were on the die when it was first put into use and gradually faded away from die wear and subsequent polishing. The die was used for a long time and the lines are visible to some extent until the latest die state. If the dies were able to clash hard enough to transfer the hair detail to the reverse die it would be down below the T in CENT and would be running upward from left to right. |
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Posted 08/10/2012 1:11 pm
