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Advice On 1952 Australian Halfpenny With Different Edge.

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 5,085Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2012  02:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
Trying for the obverse face.

I keep getting this error :

"Gateway Time-out
The gateway did not receive a timely response from the upstream server or application.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."


Anyone have any idea why? Thanks.
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2012  02:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
Still trying for the obverse.



Advice-On-1952-Australian-Halfpenny-With-Different-Edge.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2012  03:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the-purple-penny to your friends list
It's possible it has an imperfection in the metal and it's the very beginnings of a split planchet.
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2012  05:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
Hi! I have had a hard look at the groove and I believe it has been stamped into it. I believe it is far too consistent to be a planchett error. I wish I could get a photo because there is one bit that has a pattern stamped into it. I'll try ... but I'm not too optimistic.
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2012  05:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
Here goes :



Advice-On-1952-Australian-Halfpenny-With-Different-Edge.
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Australia
16870 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2012  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
If it has a groove like this running through the middle of the rim, as well as a 25 degree rotation, then my assumption would be that it's actually two coins that have had one face ground away, then the two half-coins have been joined together.

The big question is, of course, why anybody would do this. Usually such things are done to create double-headed or double-tailed "trick coins", or some kind of impossible "mint error" such as King George V obverse on a kangaroo reverse. But that doesn't seem to have been the case here; that obverse "belongs" with that reverse.

It's very odd. But I'm pretty sure the edge is not the result of a mint error.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  07:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
Hello sap Thanks for your input. My thoughts followed exactly the same path as yours, hard to see any logic in it, especially to get so close to correct weight also. That's a lot of trouble for nil seeable gain.

The thing that keeps niggling at me is that I have seen exactly that edge detail on another coin but can't place it.
I'd love to find it is a mule. Somewhat obviously. LOL

I will let you all know if I ever solve the mystery.
Thanks for all the advice. darge
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Australia
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 Posted 12/07/2012  08:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
The edge somewhat superficially resembles the "security edge" on certain foreign coins, such as Hong Kong and India. This security edge is applied to these coins at the striking stage; the collar die actually carries a ridge which causes the indentation on the coins. 2 eurocent coins also bear a similar edge.

Needless to say, Australian mints in 1952 were not striking coins for anywhere except Australia, so it can't be a "collar die from a foreign coin" that accidentally got used instead. And I can't think of any possible malfunction of the minting process that accidentally creates a security-edge-effect. It has to be post-mint damage; the only question is what kind of damage.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Formerly nancyc
Australia
5385 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nevol to your friends list

Quote:
I was expecting an email if anyone replied
This will happen if you click on 'Topic Subscription' which appears at the top right, and also at the bottom of each topic.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the-purple-penny to your friends list
Here's a 52y half penny I have. I've put the 2 images together and it's taken pretty close up with the Dino Microscope. The defect in the edge extends around about half the coin and when I saw the pic in this thread I immediately thought of this coin as very similar.

Advice-On-1952-Australian-Halfpenny-With-Different-Edge.
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
Thanks nancyc I have subscribed now and should be able to keep up.
Thanks for those images purplepenny, I have further info along the same lines.
I have 38 Perth Mint 1951 halfpennies and in them I found 5 with a pronounced groove and another 12 or more with some degree down to a faint ridge.
I have 19 London or Birmingham Mint halfs and there is not the faintest suggestion of a ridge or groove.
I did find 2 plains with one having an obverse 4 so that was a nice bonus.
I would like to have 60 1952 halfs to do the same.
I have a photo.


Advice-On-1952-Australian-Halfpenny-With-Different-Edge.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
674 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2012  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robster to your friends list
I ripped through a bunch of 50's halfpennies last night and found a few similar "grooves in the following coins- 1950- a couple, 1951 Y.- a few, 1951 Melb.149 denticles- a couple, 1951 Melb. Obverse 5- a couple, 1952-several, 1953 low dot- a couple.! All varied from quite obvious to faint and not all were around the entire rim.! Coin pool was approx. 300.! Hope this helps.! Will follow with interest .
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2012  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
Hi robster you prompted me to have a look at the 54's too and there is some (but less severe) grooving in 3 of 18 which is a lower incidence. I found some in the 47's and some as far back as 1935. (haven't checked earlier yet)

I am leaning to very high strike compression causing expanding of both faces, more pronounced at the face than at the centre as the cause.

But why that wouldn't be consistent with all the coins I have no clue unless these are softer planchets, perhaps higher copper content?
Anyone else see this as a possibility?
This seems to be quite common through the years and various mints, has anyone ever seen any disussion of this elsewhere?
I haven't. (But that doesn't mean a lot)
Pillar of the Community
Australia
674 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2012  03:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robster to your friends list
Will look through a bunch more this week.Perhaps a build up of copper in a collar.?
Valued Member
Australia
236 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2012  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darge to your friends list
robster I have just looked through 240 Ozzie pennies and found 13 with the same groove which is a far lower incidence than the halfpennies. (too small a sample to draw firm conclusions)
These examples are 1948, 51 x 2, 52 x 3 from the Melbourne Mint, then 1945, 50, 55 and 64 x 2 from the Perth Mint.
It is highly possible from the look of the 1964 examples that they are the result of a different set of factors and are possibly a red herring.
This seems to indicate that the great majority of these incidences are between 1947 and 1955, don't come from London and reasonably evenly originate from Melbourne and Perth.
My thoughts are that it seems a relatively common outcome of the process of striking copper coinage and the only mystery is why there has been no discussion about it. Or if there has why no person here has seen or heard of it.
I only have 80 British and 60 NZ pennies and about the same halfpennies but found no examples so it appears to be an idiosynchrasy of the Australian Minting Process, machinery or planchets.
Hopefully we will learn the facts from someone who knows.

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