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1911 50 Cent Coin That's Very Dark.. Tough Test In Grading..

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Valued Member
Canada
190 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2013  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cameron93 to your friends list
Re:
Quote:
You guys know a lot more about these grading issues than me... I'm not in any circle of numismatics and have been out of the loop for many years.

and


Quote:
I'm learning a lot here by asking questions...

Seems to me your humility is a bit postured...

All I've noticed you doing since you started posting here is bringing attention to all the high-grade coins you have...

The rest of us could be doing this also under the guise of "false modesty" but we've got a bit more class than to be "show-offs"...

Re: No one can buy any coins on ebay using your "mantra".

Don't bite my finger off... just look to where it is pointing

Do you even know what the word "mantra" means

If you're really here to partake in learning (as opposed to bragging) perhaps you want to think before jumping to conclusions and putting words in other peoples mouths...

At what point did I infer "no one can buy coins on ebay"...

I've simply (and for the benefit of others that might not have your substantial insight) been pointing out a fact that some novices have yet to discover... and it is that even the so-called "professional" 3rd party graders have a tough time to consistently get it right...

By all means BUY COINS ON eBay...

Just don't take it for granted that a PCGS or ICCS certified coin is the gospel when it comes to grade assessment...

cameron93

Having now received two separate complaints about the abusive nature of your posting from unconnected individuals, you can consider yourself officially warned to be more moderate.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  08:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list
DEVLEC you have some nice coins. As SPP has mentioned, ICCS punishes nice toning. I have 3 1911 5 cent SP coins. All are wonderfully toned, fully struck examples. All 3 were in ICCS SP 63 holders. One now resides in a 66 and the other 2 in 65 holders.
IMO ICCS was the leader in grading Canadian coins, but that was years ago. They are too inconsistent to maintain that level today. The fact that dealers and collectors have millions of dollars in the garbage bags and are afraid of value loss is the only reason they are discussed as "top rate".......... again just my opinion.
It is wonderful to see you get back involved in the hobby. Gradeflation is here with more and more people believing what is written on the holders of ALL companies. I grade my series of interest very conservatively and as consistent as I can. I will not use ICCS any longer and struggle with PCGS market grading. I use my eyes, and for series I do not collect I ask for and value the opinion of a close circle of friends like SPP. My keeper coins are all in hard slabs.....not for what the holder says, but for protection.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
Seems like I touched a nerve with Cameron...that's cool..!!..and I like the "spirited" response,.. not that I agree with it. Nice that Cameron feels that he qualifies to answer "for the rest of us"...and "we've got more class".


I have some nice coins and now realize more than ever how lucky I was to have very knowledgeable people guiding me back in the 70's and 80's when I was most active. I also have some very poor coins collected before guided in a more selective and quality direction.

Showing nice pieces is not bragging as others here also show great pieces.

bosox has the most wonderful collection that I've ever heard of and it's amazing for me to see such quality across the his collection. He's not bragging and has worked very hard to get that set to the level it's at.
Obviously a lot of dedicated and hard work on his part and with every post, ...available for all of us to see.

Many dealers are seen here and then there are some collectors too. For the dealers it's their job...move the coin down the road ....Many new collectors have no clue and are dying to learn as much as possible.

I've never bought on ebay, because of what I've seen in the grading companies and the fact that the posted pics rarely do justice to the actual piece being offered. I've recently followed many of the offered links here. My opinion after checking here is that you can't buy from their pics and that you should view the coin in hand...on ebay..that's impossible.

I'll have a lot more questions and hopefully the experts here, (and they are here)..will be able to get their knowledge out to us. I'll also keep posting a lot of nice coins for all to view.. Regards, D.
Edited by DEVLEC
04/29/2013 09:20 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
nicklesguy...Thanks for your comments

....and this is how a 'new guy back in' learns. I had no idea that ICCS has changed or that toning also gets punished by them.

Thanks for that much needed info...D.."Keep it coming"..
Valued Member
United States
159 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add northcoin to your friends list
Thank goodness you have not been put off by the previous response. I for one appreciate the coins you post and find it a learning experience. KEEP IT UP. THANK YOU !!
Valued Member
Canada
190 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cameron93 to your friends list

Apparently I have been "officially warned"...



Here is my "MORE MODERATE" response... :)

It's obvious that devlec took the "abusive nature" of my comments in the sarcastic spirit that was intended...


Quote:
Seems like I touched a nerve with Cameron...that's cool..!!..and I like the "spirited" response,..


Hey, I'm just gettin' into Stanley Cup playoffs mode LOL


devlec went into the corners with his elbow up high and took a sarcastic cheap shot at me... I responded in kind...

I've seen far worse than my, as devlec called it "spirited" response here on CCF, without intervention by the referees... I think we're big enough to work things out with "free speech"...

If moderator wants to take the time to look at all of my previous posts I think he will see that I have brought a lot of valuable information to the forum and done it in a respectful way...

Yes, as devlec has responded he touched a nerve and I responded in kind... my sincere apologies to the faint-of-heart that found my response so abusive as to warrant running off to tell the teacher...

And I will certainly refrain from commenting on devlec's parade of "look-at-what-I've-got" in the future.

Take care, and Have a Great Day!

cameron93
Valued Member
Canada
190 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cameron93 to your friends list

PS:

It would be real nice to see some more of our more vocal "valued members" put their money where their keyboards are and become "valued financial supporters"...

If you're a regular user of the forum and get a lot of enjoyment from being a member how about buckin' up at least the minimum $5 a month to contribute to the costs of running this fantastic site...

Respectfully (and moderately) submitted,

cameron93

Moderator
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Canada
10463 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
The 1882H specimen looks nice. As long as there are not carbon spots on the reverse, I suspect PCGS would grade it slightly higher, if the surfaces were immaculate with a 10x lens.

That said, even PCGS will punish the colour and toning of a coin, if the eye-appeal is not there. How one quantifies eye-appeal is beyond me, but I have had beautiful coins, weakly struck, graded lower than anticipated by PCGS. My 1967 DC-34 pattern piece is a perfect example - that coin _should_ be SP-65...

https://goccf.com/t/143013

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
I do have a pic of the Reverse and I will try to get it up here soon.

If I remember correctly,..it's not as nice as the Obverse,..probably a bit darker.

The sunshot really worked well on the 11 50 cent piece. I'll try that and see if it's an improvement on the 1882 Specimen.
Who wants to see a coin if you can't see the surfaces well.
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1949 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list
Wow both those specimen coins are beautiful...
Valued Member
Canada
475 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 54dollarcoin to your friends list
Devlec , keep posting some of your neat stuff and welcome back to the hobby. As a dealer , yes I do like to move coins down the road so to speak, but the collector in me always appreciates great coins. Some of the most fun I have had is buying quality coins for appreciative customers. The only problem Is I have to remove the "drool" I put all over them before placing in a cool top notch collection.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2013  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
Here is that long awaited Reverse pic that was requested.
Darker than the Obverse ..as I had remembered..



1911-50-Cent-Coin-That's-Very-Dark..-Tough-Test-In-Grading..
Edited by DEVLEC
05/08/2013 10:10 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2013  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
Here is a clearer pic of the 1882 Obverse .. 2 sheets of plastic to shoot through. Doesn't come out as I would prefer.

1911-50-Cent-Coin-That's-Very-Dark..-Tough-Test-In-Grading..
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 Posted 05/08/2013  10:46 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
Judging by the toning, it looks like that coin was treated with acetone, perhaps it was previously lacquered and then removed? Acetone can cause a photo-chemical reaction on mint state copper and bronze... Any idea what is causing the dark spotting on the reverse beads at 4 o'clock and at the base of leaf 9 and 11? Those do not look like carbon spots, at least from afar...

Nonetheless, it is sure nice seeing a fully struck specimen cent, basically as the coin's engraver had intended it to be. Thanks for sharing.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2013  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
I would say that there was a coat of lacquer on it when I had it,.. and when ICCS received it. They did a lot of my cents at the same time and did not include the "Lacquered" notation on all of them that I feel did have some lacquer on them. The shine kind of gives it away.

This 1882 has a few more dark areas on the Reverse that are not easily seen in these pics. At 5:30 and 8 PM as examples of dark areas around the leaves. I received it like that and can't say what put the darkness there. I've thought that maybe the lacquer had caused the darkness, but the darkness is real and only on the Reverse. Hopefully the present holder will protect it now.

When I received it,it was not in a plastic flip but was in a soft 2x2 kind of slip pouch. I've never seen another holder like it again.
It was a trade of "coins for coins" ..back in the early 80's.
Edited by DEVLEC
05/08/2013 8:39 pm
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